New 911 Carrera T: a completely pointless marketing exercise
10-23-2017, 02:03 PM
#108
Rennlist Member
We were at Alice’s today, the norcal Mecca for gearhead meetups. A few guys with 991.2 911’s were there as well as an RS. As each one left, of course they did semi-hard launches. The turbo 911’s just kind of slinked away with a barely audible motor sound completely muffled, banana-in-the-tailpipe style. No one could be bothered to even engage a neck muscle to turn around. Then the RS took off with the most glorious sound.. conversations stopped, heads turned, and many just began to spontaneously clap.
Not apples to apples comparison but very telling.. the NA engine is just visceral, the passion for the turbo motors is just not there. The impulse money, the kids college funds, the quarterly bonuses, the laundered drug money.. it all goes to the NA motors, not to the turbos. No way around it.
Not apples to apples comparison but very telling.. the NA engine is just visceral, the passion for the turbo motors is just not there. The impulse money, the kids college funds, the quarterly bonuses, the laundered drug money.. it all goes to the NA motors, not to the turbos. No way around it.
More importantly, I think plenty of the money you mention above has gone to turbo cars. Besides 911 Turbos dating back to 1975, there are too many great turbo cars to list, so I'll just name two: Ruf CTR1 and Ferrari F40. I'd rather have a CTR than any GT3, though the 997 4.0 would make me pause for a moment or two.
I think the new T is a great additional choice. SPASM, LSD, short gearing, short shifter, Sport Chrono adjuster without Sport Chrono, lightweight touches...all very desirable. Don't love the name, limited colors, apparent oddities in the configurator (no rear seats for the US regardless of seat choice?), or $6k (!) for the GTS interior pack in silver. A T spec'd my way adds up to $125k in GT Silver with PCCB (I feel base Carrera brakes aren't up to snuff, so PCCB is a worthwhile upgrades). For $125k, a GTS with a couple of key options is hard to pass up...
Curious to see if the configurator will be updated.
10-23-2017, 02:43 PM
#109
10-23-2017, 02:59 PM
#110
10-23-2017, 03:16 PM
#111
If you used the same type of internals in the 3.0 as in the GT3 4.0, you could have a 9,600rpm redline at the same piston speed. Probably good for 400hp N/A. But it won’t happen. 
10-23-2017, 03:19 PM
#112
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Unfortunately, the brutal reality is NA cars are largely dead and buried.
I clearly prefer turbo charged cars by a large margin as do most Porsche owners - the maths is indeed clear, given Porsche sell far more turbocharged vehicles than NA vehicles and far more PDK vehicles than manuals.
I clearly prefer turbo charged cars by a large margin as do most Porsche owners - the maths is indeed clear, given Porsche sell far more turbocharged vehicles than NA vehicles and far more PDK vehicles than manuals.
Do you really think Porsche moves to turbo engine because they WANT to?
Why didn't they do it earlier on 997 or 991.1 Carrera's.?
10-23-2017, 03:31 PM
#113
But Porsche had a choice to make... introduce the FI platform in the 992 or put it in the outgoing 991.2 so everyone has a chance to get used to it and get over it.
If you were Porsche, would you rather deal with some negativity around an outgoing generation or to mark the arrival of a new generation of cars?
Porsche made the right call from a business perspective but I can't help but think of the Carerra's we could have had but didn't get
10-23-2017, 03:47 PM
#114
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I know I'll get **** for this but my theory is that Porsche could have given us another run of NA motors in the 991.2 with slight power increases across the various models that would have satisfied almost every customer. And I can guarantee there wouldn't have been any cries of "where are the smaller displacement turbo motors we were promised!"
But Porsche had a choice to make... introduce the FI platform in the 992 or put it in the outgoing 991.2 so everyone has a chance to get used to it and get over it.
If you were Porsche, would you rather deal with some negativity around an outgoing generation or to mark the arrival of a new generation of cars?
Porsche made the right call from a business perspective but I can't help but think of the Carerra's we could have had but didn't get
But Porsche had a choice to make... introduce the FI platform in the 992 or put it in the outgoing 991.2 so everyone has a chance to get used to it and get over it.
If you were Porsche, would you rather deal with some negativity around an outgoing generation or to mark the arrival of a new generation of cars?
Porsche made the right call from a business perspective but I can't help but think of the Carerra's we could have had but didn't get
P.S. I hate the new engines
10-23-2017, 03:50 PM
#115
Race Director
Thread Starter
It is also safe to assume that lower-revving turbo engines are less expensive to develop and produce than a 9k screamer.
Look, the competition got more powerful, emissions tighter, world moving towards turbo and hybrid.. if they had stayed NA they would have fallen behind. It’s just that some of us are dinosaurs and we prefer the good old days rather than the coming days.
I hope they just keep building NA GT cars to mitigate the issue.. but somehow I doubt the 992 gt3 will stay NA. Is be more than ok with hybrid-NA though.
992 turbo
992 Turbo (more boost)
992 GT3 hybrid-NA
992 GT2 Rs hybrid-turbo
Look, the competition got more powerful, emissions tighter, world moving towards turbo and hybrid.. if they had stayed NA they would have fallen behind. It’s just that some of us are dinosaurs and we prefer the good old days rather than the coming days.
I hope they just keep building NA GT cars to mitigate the issue.. but somehow I doubt the 992 gt3 will stay NA. Is be more than ok with hybrid-NA though.
992 turbo
992 Turbo (more boost)
992 GT3 hybrid-NA
992 GT2 Rs hybrid-turbo
10-23-2017, 03:58 PM
#116
Rennlist Member
At least they finally solved the door rattles by removing the stereo. 
10-23-2017, 04:02 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
I've never understood the NA -or- turbo argument. All that matters in a driver's car should be FUN, right? Being closed off to turbos is like being closed off to coupes, stick shifts, or AWD....and it's always a bummer when religion gets in the way of faith. Fwiw, I like both NA -and- turbo engines...so long as they are good NA engines or good turbo engines. Examples of the best from each category are rare—and I'd say the 3.0 turbo is a gem. It may not be GT3 epic, but I find it to be a better and more enjoyable engine than the 3.8 in my GT4 (even if I wouldn't mind a bit more voice). YMMV...
10-23-2017, 05:17 PM
#118
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Up on the 'murican configurator.
I like it.
I like it.
10-23-2017, 05:43 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
If I had to buy new, and it had to be turbo, I'd definitely buy this version.
10-23-2017, 05:52 PM
#120
Does anyone else recall that approx 18 months ago they were spouting that MT's were not in their future plans and, as such, were on their last legs. But now they hawking them again as "more driving pleasure".
How many variants of the 991 do we now have?
What's next? Targa Turbo S ?
How many variants of the 991 do we now have?
What's next? Targa Turbo S ?