MJG911

I've got a .1 C2S and an M4 ZCP. Took them both to the NC mountains, Cherahola skyway, tail of the dragon, etc. Had a friend driving one and me the other and we switched back and forth.

The 991 by far handled and felt better under spirited driving. I definitely felt more connected to the road in it than the BMW. But I love both of them.

sticky

I don't have much seat time in the F80 but the E92 sure feels far more natural and easier to explore the limits on initially.

It's mostly a balance issue IMO as BMW's used to be 50/50 and the Porsche obviously has most of its weight in the back.

There is more understeer at the limit in the BMW but this is a safety precaution. I wouldn't say it understeers but is set to keep you from killing yourself. In the 911 when you go too far you have to worry about snap oversteer although Porsche has done a good job dialing this out over the years.

The cars simply have different characteristics. Both handle very well.

mrmojom3

My 14 C4S brakes squeaked like crazy coming to a stop, 12k miles on the car no tracking. Dealer took it out on the highway, slammed on the brakes from 80 mph a few times. Fixed it for a couple of weeks. Super common on 991's unfortunately. My 991 GTS has no squeaking (fingers crossed).

gearboxtrouble

I've had an M4 since 2014 and various M3s for the 8 years before that. I did the 2 day Porsche Sport driving school at Barber motorsports park and ended up buying a 2016 991.1 GTS as my B car and one of my main reasons was how much better the 911 suited my track driving style. Once you learn how to use its RR layout to your advantage, there's no going back to a FR track car.

Initial turn in is much easier on the M because there's more front end bite due to the weight distribution. In the 911 I found I needed to do a lot more to load up the front axle into corners by braking harder and then trailing more brake till the apex is lined up. The RWS in the 991.2 cars helps a lot with increasing your margin for error on entry speed but does eff all if you're not loading up the front.

The flip side of that is that the 911 has much, much, much better traction than the M3/4 coming out of a turn. I found I could go WOT before I even apexed in some cases because of how well the rearward weight distribution finds traction. The M3/4 is a very different proposition because you generally end up having to treat the throttle like there's eggshells under it till you're past the apex and straightening up

Driving the M3/4 on track is all about turning in late to maximize entry speed and then being very, very careful until you're mostly through the turn. Driving the 911 on track is all about turning in early and getting to full throttle within the corner itself to maximize exit speed. Drive a M3/4 like a 911 and you'll end up exiting the corner backwards or off the track and drive a 911 like a M3/4 and you'll end up understeering on corner entry and getting snap oversteer when you overcorrect.

mrmojom3

I have had a number of M cars 01 M3, 05 M3, 08 M3, 08 M6, 11 M3, 06 M5, 15 M3. They were all fantastic cars with the exception of the F80. I only had it a couple of months then moved on to a 991 4S.
The F80 didnt feel it was in the same "DNA" as the previous M cars. It felt "bigger" in the back roads, not "smaller when fast" like the previous M cars. To me just felt like a modded 335. As soon as I drove a 991 S I felt right at home. Felt like an extension of previous M cars. Moved on to 911's not looking back to M anymore.

Anyways, I know what you mean by the front end "lightness". I had a 4S with SPASM. The front end / steering felt more planted to the road, like it was super glued at all times. Then the SPASM cornered so flat, unreal. I moved to a 991 GTS 2wd and the front end instantly felt lighter, however that's the 911 experience. My car has PDCC, so when I press sport suspension plus PDCC it does help the car to feel more planted. But I do not have SPASM on the GTS, as I dont want it on a DD.

A few points

1. You should consider a DSC module. It's an aftermarket controller for the PASM that allows you to tweak the suspension travel via software. Also the car feels unbelievable during fast driving. Research it. I have it and love it.

2. The harder I drive the 911 the better it feels. It likes to be hustled, that's where it really shines. Its a bit frumpy around town at slow speeds. Where the F80 feels much smoother at low speeds.

3. Posting your VIN with car options is helpful to provide advice to you. You will learn that 911's options are vast, and 2 cars with different options will feel very very different.

Give it 30 days or so, you will slowly appreciate the magic of the 991 over the M car. The M car will wow you quicker as its easier to drive, but the 911 will slowly win you over as you need to work harder to get enjoyment out of it - but its more rewarding.

G/L.

mashhype

Thank you! So I was driving home today on one of the toll roads here in Southern California and I wanted to open it up a bit and break away from all this nasty traffic here. I got up to like 120 mph and I noticed the car started vibrating. Not in the steering wheel though. It was kind of an overall vibration. Anyone experience this? Do I need a rear wheel balance? Thats what I read on a separate thread when googling the issue. The tires have plenty of tread. In the past few days the only thing I have done is reduce the tire pressure. Fronts are at 32/33 PSI and Rears are at 36 PSI.

Petza914

Are the wheels OEM or aftermarket and if the latter, what make, model, & size?

Some possibilities:

1. I'd check the torque of your lug bolts - should be 118 ft.lbs. Porsche retroactively changed the spec from the old 96 ft.lbs. to cover all water cooled 911 models.
2. Could be something as simple as rear wheel balance (front usually shakes the steering wheel), but it would likely show up before 120 - probably by 75.
3. Usually a very high speed vibration is caused by something not having the proper hub-centric dimension for the mounted wheel. The wheel carrier has a 71.6mm flange on it that mates to the center bore of the wheel. If the wheels are aftermarket, it's possible the center bore of your wheels isn't manufactured to the correct Porsche bore spec.
4. Also if aftermarket, make sure the seat on the wheel is the same as the seat type of the lug bolts. Porsche uses a rounded profile lug bolt seat called radius or ball style, but many aftermarket wheels use a tapered or conical seat. If there's a seat mismatch, the wheel can start moving around on the lug bolts.
5. Even with OEM wheels, if you've added spacers to push the wheels and tires out (or the PO has), if they didn't buy hub-centric spacers this sensation can also happen. Hub centric spacers on the inner edge have the proper 71.6mm bore and on the outer edge have the proper 71.6mm lip to mate with the wheel bore, keeping everything center justified.

The car should be rock-steady at this speed without any vibration or hop. Something is not right.

bradleyjb

OP - I got my PSE installed by Rusnak Porsche for $3750 parts and labor. Not sure I would do it again though. It sounds good, but I'm not sure about 4k of goodness. I got more value out of paint correction, PPF, and ceramic pro.

For what it's worth, I had (and still have) a 2015 BMW M4 (no CP). I loved that car, and still love the tech within. However, after getting my 2015 C4S, I cant help but find flaws in how it drives and feels (and it feels large). It's still great and super fast (especially with JB1 stage 1 and > 500hp) but not quite the same feel as the 911, which I drive most of the time now.

Congrats on the switch!

mashhype

It’s all OEM..no spacers...haven’t heard the best about pirelli PZeros. It’s smooth up to 100 for sure. Touched 100 yesterday. I will try to get a rebalancing done soon...thanks for the feedback.

mashhype

thanks. Where did you get the PPF done at? I’m getting quoted $1200 for full hood, full bumper, partial front fenders. Don’t want to spend any more $$. Wondering if there is a better deal or if I can get full fenders for $1200.

also, did you get the PSE parts from suncoast? Do you know what their labor charge is?

DY369

Since you are in So Cal I very much recommend the Porsche Experience Center. Well worth the price and you get to drive the car like you would not be able to on the street.

bradleyjb

I got my PPF done at StickerCity in Van Nuys. They did a great job. It was 1999 for full hood, lights, rockers, bumpers, mirrors, rear wheels, foglights, etc. They also have an option for 1699 that does most of that except for rockers and rear wheels.

I didnt get the parts at Suncoast. I got a lot of pushback from dealers about bringing my own parts. I checked out several places, and i recall Pasadena Porsche was a little more (like 4200) and Downtown Porsche was ridiculous at 4900. I dont remember what the labor charge was, but it took most of a day ~7 or 8 hours or so.

Capt_and

If you want PSE just DIY. You can do it for under $1200. Buy the center muffler (I think there is one floating around RL or eBay for $800) and swap it out yourself. Very easy procedure: remove bumper/heat shield, unbolt old muffler and remove, reinstall new muffler and bumper. Then get the switch from sunset Porsche for $180, install it in 10 minutes. Find an indy with a Porsche computer and have them program it for you it'll take 30 minutes for the indy to do it, 1.5 hrs for the dealer to do it. You don't have to touch the vacuum lines if you don't want to, the rerouting of vacuum lines is purely to keep everything very neat but no functional purpose.

mashhype

can i PM you for more details? I have no clue how to install, no tools, etc

Capt_and

I'll post it here just in case anyone else reading this has the same questions.

First and cheapest thing I would do it simply switching the switch console box (box with all of the buttons) with one that has the PSE button. You can't just add the button, it would require the whole assembly. One you have it installed, you can take it to a dealer or an indy to program the PSE functionality. The dealers wanted to charge me $250, the indy I took it to, RAC Performance in Dallas, charged me $70. If the have a Porsche computer, they should be able to do it. Here is the link to swap out the box: http://plenums.blogspot.com/2014/12/...r-console.html

Then after this, you are still not satisfied you can scroll through this forum and read the tens of thousands of posts where people discuss each exhaust option and decide which you want to get. If you go with the PSE muffler, the part should cost you around $800-$950. Here is a post I did a little while back on my experiences with different exhausts: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1027...ally-over.html

Regardless of the exhaust you choose, the install is the exact same if you still with just the center muffler. Here are the best instructions on removing the bumper and installing the exhaust: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9295...all-gts-2.html

Yours will be different when it comes to the vacuum lines since the car in that link is a PSE car, BUT that doesn't matter, just run your vacuum lines to the valves and avoid having them touch the muffler. Some companies include extra vacuum hoses, others don't. If your car is an S car, you do not need to change anything with the vacuum hoses for the PSE button to work, you only need to connect the car's vacuum lines to the valves. Regardless of how the lines are routed, as long the the line doesn't have any leaks, everything will work.

Here is the kicker, if you truly have no tools, then you probably haven't done many mechanical things and it might take you a lot longer. IMO, if you can put together any furniture, you can do this exhaust swap. But, assuming you actually don't have any tools, this might be a bit more difficult. Every bolt and screw I have taken on/off this car can be done with some torx bits and metric sockets. I don't want to be the guy that told you it was easy and then have you be mad because it wasn't as easy.

If you need some inspiration: I bought a 1987 3/4 ton dodge truck this summer. I knew it would be a project but I was told by a few people that they would lend a hand. The truck ran for approx. 1 week before it completely died on me. All the help I was expecting to get had schedules to work around so I decided to buy the tools and do it myself. Before this, I had never done an oil change. I would say I am mechanically inclined but was completely green to working on anything mechanical on a vehicle at that point. Anyways, the swap is complete and truck is now at the shop to have everything tested and buttoned up. I finished the swap about 2 months ago but I didn't have any time to get it towed to the shop until this week. I went from never doing an oil change to a full engine swap and A/C retrofit in the course of a month and a half (working on it 1.5 hrs after work and some weekends). So, if you feel as though you are somewhat mechanically inclined then don't let inexperience hinder your progression.

Let me know if you have any other questions.