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Question for the OP, did you test drive the car before you bought it? I came from an F10 M5, a fast and smooth rocket, to a 2018 991.2 with SPASM. It’s a different car and the M3 is more like an M5 just smaller. I feel a lot more connected in the 991 but the M5 gives you a different sense of security that you may consider as “planted” given that it’s larger. You may feel a little thrown around and bouncy, but I guarantee you that the 991 has higher limits and capability than your M3. BMW is good at going fast and being comfortable. Going from a sports luxury car to a true sports car requires a bit of getting used to.
Well, I just sold my 1M for a 991 3.4 and believe me when I say the the 991 is on rails compared to Mr Oversteer...
How do you like that 3.4? I have an S and sometimes think the 3.4 would have been a better car after driving a couple 3.4 cars. The thing spins and sounds awesome. One I drove had IPD plenum, BMC, headers, fister + tune. Not sure about the throttle body... That car sung like no 911 I've heard. Not as loud as mine but the actual engine singing was amazing.
When I get out of my gt3 and into my f80 it feels like I'm driving a truck. I've never driven a non gt 991 but from my experience my Porsche makes my m3 feel soft. I think tires make a huge difference. My Porsche is on cup 2s whereas my f80 has super sports.
How do you like that 3.4? I have an S and sometimes think the 3.4 would have been a better car after driving a couple 3.4 cars. The thing spins and sounds awesome. One I drove had IPD plenum, BMC, headers, fister + tune. Not sure about the throttle body... That car sung like no 911 I've heard. Not as loud as mine but the actual engine singing was amazing.
The 1M had a Dinan stage II therefore far more low down grunt for everyday driving. Personally I prefer N/A cars and the 3.4 certainly needs to be worked to hit the sweet spot (especially in the city where people look at me as if though I'm nuts), I love it but to be honest haven't had it long enough to know it it will be a keeper or stepping stone to an S or GTS.
One thing for sure, compared to an E46 or my 1M the chassis is simply sublime, even in base form.
Hello,
Having made the switch from an M3 (E36) to a previous 911 (996 C2), I know the exact feeling you have. 911's are very light in front, and will respond very differently to driving style. This is primarily physics (very light front, planted rear), and maybe setup/condition of specific parameters (front damper condition - rebound damping especially).
Assuming all the alignment, tire pressures, and front dampers condition are good, I would advise paying attention to driving style. 911's respond well to being smooth off the brakes onto the throttle - a little trail braking keeps the front planted as you turn in, then smoothly roll onto the throttle at just before the apex, and you can get a pretty fast exit.
The significant mass at the front of M3's puts a lot more inertia into the front of that car, and so its natural response to abrupt steering, brake and throttle inputs is much more damped (in terms of physics - both laterally and vertically). This makes the M3 feels more confidence inspiring to anyone unfamiliar with the 911 feel. However, as you get familiar with the 911 characteristics, you will find that (physics again) the low mass/rotational inertia of the 911, combined with the stellar traction allows you to both turn-in faster as well as exit corners faster than a comparable (in HP/weight) M3.
I should point out, however, that good front spring rate and rebound damping is key to this. In both my 996 and 997's I felt that the front dampers were poor and front spring rate too low. I ended up replacing those (with KWv3's) which completely transformed the car! I could really attack transitions and curbs without any of the "bouncy" feeling that the stock suspension had.
In my 991 C2S, I find the PASM in Sport mode just about OK for sporty street driving, and a bit underwhelming for track driving (PCA - Advanced/BLACK group). I suspect that the S-PASM setup would be better. However, the tradeoff in ride civility on the street is (for me) a very good balance. So for now, I am happy to pay attention to smoothness on turn in, and enjoy the reward from apex and especially track out exit.
Even with the M3, I don't recall ever having that much grip from apex to track out - I had a TCKline setup on my M3 also, and with R-compounds, brake mods, etc, used to run it pretty hard on track.
So - different car, different physics. Assuming one or more of the front dampers are not shot - I think you will benefit from adjusting your inputs. Smoothness is key. A joy to learn to master, and immensely rewarding once you get the secret handshake down.
M3 is a glorified 3 series with cheap cabin materials lol
I wouldn't go that far. Having owned M cars before, they only share 20% of parts with their base variants. They just build on top of a good BMW chassis.
OP - you have to get used to a different driving style. The 991 series is one of the easier 911s to drive.
You have to think in terms of transitions and traction.
(1) transitions require soft hands, you will, feel the weight in the rear move from left to right and right to left. Think of it as a Waltz e.g. smooth and flowing You want the weight to move gently and not quickly (as you will over power the tires). It doesn't take long to get the feel and once you have - corners become a hoot. You pour the car through esses and corners.
(2) Traction and grip - in the dry, the traction and grip a 991 911 offers is very high. The combination of traction and grip allow you to get the power down out of corners better than any other car on the road. On the road its fun, on track its devastating. But as with many things timing is everything.
Congratulations on your move, its a good one. Personally I have found M cars disappointing, at least from my perspective, largely because without exception they have poor steering feel, brakes that go off, poor traction and are still quite heavy. I wish that wasn't the case - they seem to be struggling and the solution seems to be to plaster M badges over every model. I have come to believe "M" merely stands for "M"arketing.
Thanks everyone for their feedback (some more than others lol). I reduced the PSI in my tires and took the car out again. Handling felt better for sure. I think alot of this is just me getting used to a vastly different chassis). Also, my brakes squeak in city driving when I slow to a stoplight. I've read its common. Need to figure out how to get my car's pic under my profile...
Hello,
Having made the switch from an M3 (E36) to a previous 911 (996 C2), I know the exact feeling you have. 911's are very light in front, and will respond very differently to driving style. This is primarily physics (very light front, planted rear), and maybe setup/condition of specific parameters (front damper condition - rebound damping especially).
Assuming all the alignment, tire pressures, and front dampers condition are good, I would advise paying attention to driving style. 911's respond well to being smooth off the brakes onto the throttle - a little trail braking keeps the front planted as you turn in, then smoothly roll onto the throttle at just before the apex, and you can get a pretty fast exit.
The significant mass at the front of M3's puts a lot more inertia into the front of that car, and so its natural response to abrupt steering, brake and throttle inputs is much more damped (in terms of physics - both laterally and vertically). This makes the M3 feels more confidence inspiring to anyone unfamiliar with the 911 feel. However, as you get familiar with the 911 characteristics, you will find that (physics again) the low mass/rotational inertia of the 911, combined with the stellar traction allows you to both turn-in faster as well as exit corners faster than a comparable (in HP/weight) M3.
I should point out, however, that good front spring rate and rebound damping is key to this. In both my 996 and 997's I felt that the front dampers were poor and front spring rate too low. I ended up replacing those (with KWv3's) which completely transformed the car! I could really attack transitions and curbs without any of the "bouncy" feeling that the stock suspension had.
In my 991 C2S, I find the PASM in Sport mode just about OK for sporty street driving, and a bit underwhelming for track driving (PCA - Advanced/BLACK group). I suspect that the S-PASM setup would be better. However, the tradeoff in ride civility on the street is (for me) a very good balance. So for now, I am happy to pay attention to smoothness on turn in, and enjoy the reward from apex and especially track out exit.
Even with the M3, I don't recall ever having that much grip from apex to track out - I had a TCKline setup on my M3 also, and with R-compounds, brake mods, etc, used to run it pretty hard on track.
So - different car, different physics. Assuming one or more of the front dampers are not shot - I think you will benefit from adjusting your inputs. Smoothness is key. A joy to learn to master, and immensely rewarding once you get the secret handshake down.
Hope this helps.
- Sanjeev
Awesome answer Sanjeev. I have a CS background so this stuff is fascinating to me...
Hello,
Having made the switch from an M3 (E36) to a previous 911 (996 C2), I know the exact feeling you have. 911's are very light in front, and will respond very differently to driving style. This is primarily physics (very light front, planted rear), and maybe setup/condition of specific parameters (front damper condition - rebound damping especially).
Assuming all the alignment, tire pressures, and front dampers condition are good, I would advise paying attention to driving style. 911's respond well to being smooth off the brakes onto the throttle - a little trail braking keeps the front planted as you turn in, then smoothly roll onto the throttle at just before the apex, and you can get a pretty fast exit.
The significant mass at the front of M3's puts a lot more inertia into the front of that car, and so its natural response to abrupt steering, brake and throttle inputs is much more damped (in terms of physics - both laterally and vertically). This makes the M3 feels more confidence inspiring to anyone unfamiliar with the 911 feel. However, as you get familiar with the 911 characteristics, you will find that (physics again) the low mass/rotational inertia of the 911, combined with the stellar traction allows you to both turn-in faster as well as exit corners faster than a comparable (in HP/weight) M3.
I should point out, however, that good front spring rate and rebound damping is key to this. In both my 996 and 997's I felt that the front dampers were poor and front spring rate too low. I ended up replacing those (with KWv3's) which completely transformed the car! I could really attack transitions and curbs without any of the "bouncy" feeling that the stock suspension had.
In my 991 C2S, I find the PASM in Sport mode just about OK for sporty street driving, and a bit underwhelming for track driving (PCA - Advanced/BLACK group). I suspect that the S-PASM setup would be better. However, the tradeoff in ride civility on the street is (for me) a very good balance. So for now, I am happy to pay attention to smoothness on turn in, and enjoy the reward from apex and especially track out exit.
Even with the M3, I don't recall ever having that much grip from apex to track out - I had a TCKline setup on my M3 also, and with R-compounds, brake mods, etc, used to run it pretty hard on track.
So - different car, different physics. Assuming one or more of the front dampers are not shot - I think you will benefit from adjusting your inputs. Smoothness is key. A joy to learn to master, and immensely rewarding once you get the secret handshake down.
Hope this helps.
- Sanjeev
Originally Posted by randr
OP - you have to get used to a different driving style. The 991 series is one of the easier 911s to drive.
You have to think in terms of transitions and traction.
(1) transitions require soft hands, you will, feel the weight in the rear move from left to right and right to left. Think of it as a Waltz e.g. smooth and flowing You want the weight to move gently and not quickly (as you will over power the tires). It doesn't take long to get the feel and once you have - corners become a hoot. You pour the car through esses and corners.
(2) Traction and grip - in the dry, the traction and grip a 991 911 offers is very high. The combination of traction and grip allow you to get the power down out of corners better than any other car on the road. On the road its fun, on track its devastating. But as with many things timing is everything.
Congratulations on your move, its a good one. Personally I have found M cars disappointing, at least from my perspective, largely because without exception they have poor steering feel, brakes that go off, poor traction and are still quite heavy. I wish that wasn't the case - they seem to be struggling and the solution seems to be to plaster M badges over every model. I have come to believe "M" merely stands for "M"arketing.
Thanks...this is my 2nd Porsche. I had a 2006 Cayman S not too long ago. Sold it as it was too hard to drive daily in SoCal traffic (it was a manual). Got the F80 to replace that (2nd M car). World of a difference. The torque on the F80 is just nuts. Time will tell what the true spirit of each of these two cars are. I am lucky enough to keep both so I plan to transition back and forth to see what their differences are.
Also, my brakes squeak in city driving when I slow to a stoplight. I've read its common.
It's not common unless you have track pads installed or a brake job was done incorrectly. Neither of the brakes on my 911s make any noise. If the brakes were serviced prior to you owning the car, they probably didn't install the proper OEM pad dampeners, or clean the rotors correctly, or bed the new pads to the rotor correctly or some combination of these. The pad dampeners adhere to the back of the brake pads and the claw spring locks into the inside of the caliper pistons. This prevents the pad from oscillating against the piston, which is 90% of the time where brake squeal originates from, not from between the pad surface and the rotor as most believe. The pad dampeners look like this and come in different sizes for the different pistons in the calipers, depending on which brakes you have.
If a brake job has been done prior to you owning the car, they probably didn't install the proper OEM pad dampeners. These adhere to the back of the brake pads and the claw spring locks into the inside of the caliper pistons. This prevents the pad from oscillating against the piston, which is 90% of the time where brake squeal originates from, not from between the pad surface and the rotor as most believe. The pad dampeners look like this and come in different sizes for the different pistons in the calipers, depending on which brakes you have.
I bought it from a Porsche dealer in the Northeast. Its a CPO car. The front pad had like 70-80% remaining according to the CPO checklist. So I don't think they did a brake job on it since the CPO checklist requires them to do so only if its less than 50% remaining. Or they bs'd me so they wouldn't have to incur that cost.
10-15-2017, 05:52 PM
You want the weight to move gently and not quickly (as you will over power the tires). It doesn't take long to get the feel and once you have - corners become a hoot. You pour the car through esses and corners. 
