Any regrets upgrading from NA to Turbo
08-19-2017, 05:21 PM
#76
Making more than 100 HP/litre reliably out of an NA engine isn't bad. I've had enough experience with those BMW 3.2s to know that they have a ton of issues and, unlike the Porsche, always struggled to make rated power.
And because Porsche was comfortably getting them to the power level they didn't want to exceed, there's more power (and particularly torque) there if you want to go and find it.
At the end of the day, of course it can't match what a turbo engine can do in terms of raw figures. It's not hard to find old turbo engines making more out of less displacement than the 3.0 flat six is doing now either, but none of that matters. Porsche's reasons for going turbo aren't that they really wanted or needed to, but rather that regulations forced their hand along with that of other European car makers. There's more to enjoying a car and its engine than power and torque, and some people will prefer the low RPM shove that turbos provide where others get giddy from the power gradually building to a crescendo with an NA. Whatever floats your boat, but figures are never going to be the whole story.
And because Porsche was comfortably getting them to the power level they didn't want to exceed, there's more power (and particularly torque) there if you want to go and find it.
At the end of the day, of course it can't match what a turbo engine can do in terms of raw figures. It's not hard to find old turbo engines making more out of less displacement than the 3.0 flat six is doing now either, but none of that matters. Porsche's reasons for going turbo aren't that they really wanted or needed to, but rather that regulations forced their hand along with that of other European car makers. There's more to enjoying a car and its engine than power and torque, and some people will prefer the low RPM shove that turbos provide where others get giddy from the power gradually building to a crescendo with an NA. Whatever floats your boat, but figures are never going to be the whole story.
I mean no offense but I probably have more experience with the S54 and I saw incredible consistency to the dyno's and output putting them at a 15% drivetrain loss right on the money. Care to post proof of your assertion they don't make power?
Where is the more power and torque from Porsche and their 3.4? I can show you 350+ whp naturally aspirated examples of BMW's 3.2. I can't find one of the Porsche 3.4 in that range.
Exactly, it's not just about raw output but the 9A2 is providing its output with great spool, a linear curve, and clean emissions. Not to mention more power, torque, and greater headroom. That is probably why it is rated the best 3.0 liter powerplant in the world in 2017.
08-19-2017, 05:22 PM
#77
That Camaro is beating you, easily. Not even counting the ZL1, again, beating you easily. Not even counting the CTS-V, again, beating you easily. Then you have the Corvettes, again, beating you easily.
The amount of cars to list that are faster would take too long. Suffice it to say, the list is long enough that a 991.1 is simply not for me. The 991.2 on the other hand...
The amount of cars to list that are faster would take too long. Suffice it to say, the list is long enough that a 991.1 is simply not for me. The 991.2 on the other hand...
08-19-2017, 05:27 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
I have a 991.2 C2S and it definitely has turbo lag, I don't think there is a way to eliminate it unless they come out with a hybrid to fill the gap...
Personally I think the additional power and torque is amazing and makes the fun to drive. however I own a GT3 so I get my n/a kicks when I want to. if I could only have one, i would own a 991.1
Personally I think the additional power and torque is amazing and makes the fun to drive. however I own a GT3 so I get my n/a kicks when I want to. if I could only have one, i would own a 991.1
08-19-2017, 05:31 PM
#79
It's a tremendous achievement.
08-19-2017, 05:45 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
15% drivetrain loss right on the money. Care to post proof of your assertion they don't make power?
Pointless argument.
08-19-2017, 05:45 PM
#81
I have a 991.2 C2S and it definitely has turbo lag, I don't think there is a way to eliminate it unless they come out with a hybrid to fill the gap...
Personally I think the additional power and torque is amazing and makes the fun to drive. however I own a GT3 so I get my n/a kicks when I want to. if I could only have one, i would own a 991.1
Personally I think the additional power and torque is amazing and makes the fun to drive. however I own a GT3 so I get my n/a kicks when I want to. if I could only have one, i would own a 991.1
08-19-2017, 05:45 PM
#82
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by sticky
In the 997.2 and 991.1 eras I would have never considered a Carrera or Carrera S due to how weak they are. What's strong about it?
Now that Porsche gave the Carrera a pair of *****, game on.
Now that Porsche gave the Carrera a pair of *****, game on.
Originally Posted by sticky
The sad look on the face of a 991.1 or 997 owner after reality sets in is the priceless look I love.
08-19-2017, 05:51 PM
#83
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by sticky
Translation: Whoops, caught in a lie so I'll resort to personal attacks.
An adult would apologize, not throw a tantrum.
An adult would apologize, not throw a tantrum.
We get it. You say the 991.2 is superior. You are correct. Feel better now?
08-19-2017, 05:56 PM
#84
The GTS is faster because the GT350 is manual only. I'm guessing your car is PDK? The GT350 even loses to an automatic 6th gen Camaro SS: http://www.****************/content.p...utomatic-makes
That Camaro is beating you, easily. Not even counting the ZL1, again, beating you easily. Not even counting the CTS-V, again, beating you easily. Then you have the Corvettes, again, beating you easily.
The amount of cars to list that are faster would take too long. Suffice it to say, the list is long enough that a 991.1 is simply not for me. The 991.2 on the other hand...
Yes, the M4 is faster is as well. As is the Performance Package M4.
Let's not act like the 991.2 is going to blow up from a tune. Porsche gives it a range of 370-450 hp themselves with plenty built in there. It's a Porsche tuning value and the best one they ever offered in their history. If you're into power, it's no discussion.
Go with whatever makes you happy but let's not pretend the 991.1 can keep up with much of anything these days.
That Camaro is beating you, easily. Not even counting the ZL1, again, beating you easily. Not even counting the CTS-V, again, beating you easily. Then you have the Corvettes, again, beating you easily.
The amount of cars to list that are faster would take too long. Suffice it to say, the list is long enough that a 991.1 is simply not for me. The 991.2 on the other hand...
Yes, the M4 is faster is as well. As is the Performance Package M4.
Let's not act like the 991.2 is going to blow up from a tune. Porsche gives it a range of 370-450 hp themselves with plenty built in there. It's a Porsche tuning value and the best one they ever offered in their history. If you're into power, it's no discussion.
Go with whatever makes you happy but let's not pretend the 991.1 can keep up with much of anything these days.
Your are truly delusional. I have had no problem with a Camaro outside of a ZL1, have no issues with Corvettes outside of a Z06.
It will take a true 991 Turbo to beat those, a 991.2 may tie.
M4s are not even anywhere close, nada, nil.....don't let the "terrrbo" word sway you from the facts. CTSVs are just pigs, fast in a straight line only, one curve and the 4K lb car is history.
Simply go to this page OF VALID PRINTED ROAD TESTS and see what actual times are out there (Camaro, Corvette, all the ones you mentioned) One example.....
https://www.0-60specs.com/
Go look at Porsche first for 991.1 GTS
RWD 7A 3.6 sec 11.9 sec @ 118 mph
BMW M4 Comp Package
Competition Package Coupe RWD 7A 4.0 sec 12.1 sec @ 118 mph
Not the trouncing you were expecting? Now go look at all the others you brought up (even a new ZL1, etc), then come back and correct your statements. You are discounting a 991.1 a bit too much. They are not slow by any means. 991.2s are faster, but so are a lot of other cars.
Also, please, please.....if you have the funds, go buy a 991.2, mod it and come back with incredible stories, the entertainment value will be unmatched.
08-19-2017, 06:33 PM
#85
08-19-2017, 06:38 PM
#86
Your are truly delusional. I have had no problem with a Camaro outside of a ZL1, have no issues with Corvettes outside of a Z06.
It will take a true 991 Turbo to beat those, a 991.2 may tie.
M4s are not even anywhere close, nada, nil.....don't let the "terrrbo" word sway you from the facts. CTSVs are just pigs, fast in a straight line only, one curve and the 4K lb car is history.
Simply go to this page OF VALID PRINTED ROAD TESTS and see what actual times are out there (Camaro, Corvette, all the ones you mentioned) One example.....
https://www.0-60specs.com/
Go look at Porsche first for 991.1 GTS
RWD 7A 3.6 sec 11.9 sec @ 118 mph
BMW M4 Comp Package
Competition Package Coupe RWD 7A 4.0 sec 12.1 sec @ 118 mph
Not the trouncing you were expecting? Now go look at all the others you brought up (even a new ZL1, etc), then come back and correct your statements. You are discounting a 991.1 a bit too much. They are not slow by any means. 991.2s are faster, but so are a lot of other cars.
Also, please, please.....if you have the funds, go buy a 991.2, mod it and come back with incredible stories, the entertainment value will be unmatched.
It will take a true 991 Turbo to beat those, a 991.2 may tie.
M4s are not even anywhere close, nada, nil.....don't let the "terrrbo" word sway you from the facts. CTSVs are just pigs, fast in a straight line only, one curve and the 4K lb car is history.
Simply go to this page OF VALID PRINTED ROAD TESTS and see what actual times are out there (Camaro, Corvette, all the ones you mentioned) One example.....
https://www.0-60specs.com/
Go look at Porsche first for 991.1 GTS
RWD 7A 3.6 sec 11.9 sec @ 118 mph
BMW M4 Comp Package
Competition Package Coupe RWD 7A 4.0 sec 12.1 sec @ 118 mph
Not the trouncing you were expecting? Now go look at all the others you brought up (even a new ZL1, etc), then come back and correct your statements. You are discounting a 991.1 a bit too much. They are not slow by any means. 991.2s are faster, but so are a lot of other cars.
Also, please, please.....if you have the funds, go buy a 991.2, mod it and come back with incredible stories, the entertainment value will be unmatched.
The 991.2 has slips showing 11.5@120 stock.
Show me a 991.1 GTS slip anywhere near that. I'll wait.
This is a STOCK F80 M3:
Plenty of them in the 10's too.
Camaro SS? Stock 11.9:
Where are the 991.1's? Magazine racing on forums.
What do you mean if I have the funds? My modded 991.2 is sitting in my garage. Worry about the funds for your own.
08-19-2017, 06:45 PM
#87
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That's adorable, you're magazine racing.
The 991.2 has slips showing 11.5@120 stock.
Show me a 991.1 GTS slip anywhere near that. I'll wait.
This is a STOCK F80 M3:
Plenty of them in the 10's too.
Camaro SS? Stock 11.9:
Where are the 991.1's? Magazine racing on forums.
What do you mean if I have the funds? My modded 991.2 is sitting in my garage. Worry about the funds for your own.
The 991.2 has slips showing 11.5@120 stock.
Show me a 991.1 GTS slip anywhere near that. I'll wait.
This is a STOCK F80 M3:
Plenty of them in the 10's too.
Camaro SS? Stock 11.9:
Where are the 991.1's? Magazine racing on forums.
What do you mean if I have the funds? My modded 991.2 is sitting in my garage. Worry about the funds for your own.
08-19-2017, 06:51 PM
#88
Isn't the 991.2 already running 11.1 and on the verge of 10's? Isn't that unheard of for a Carrera?
Why do we even have a Carrera, S, and GTS if the power doesn't matter?
08-19-2017, 06:52 PM
#89
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People who don't like having slow 911's when a newer one is available, like the one in the topic, that is turbocharged and quite quick? How else do you intend to show just how big the difference is?
Isn't the 991.2 already running 11.1 and on the verge of 10's? Isn't that unheard of for a Carrera?
Why do we even have a Carrera, S, and GTS if the power doesn't matter?
Isn't the 991.2 already running 11.1 and on the verge of 10's? Isn't that unheard of for a Carrera?
Why do we even have a Carrera, S, and GTS if the power doesn't matter?
08-19-2017, 06:54 PM
#90