Dewinator

Well older ones have three pedals which is more fun than two and cars have been fast enough that being faster doesn't automatically make them more fun on public roads for a long time. People who buy cars based on what it looks like to other people are douchebags so who cares what it looks like?

bernpep

Right on the money! Had thought about trade until I drove .2. I prefer instant throttle response over a turbo. Shattered that trade idea. All this after I bugged & got an allocation for gts
NA sound is priceless

Bemo

^^ this

The new turbo did everything right, it was fast, composed but it did so with ruthless indifference, quite the clinical experience really.

The NA,too, made me giggle with the sound of the motor and exhaust. I want drama and theatrics and it gives plenty. Both cars being fast and other things equal what else is really left to nitpick on? The power plant! The NA variety feels alive and connected and a great singer, the turbo barely gets by in the karaoke bar.

Soon enough we won't have NA options and turbo will be it, or a battery pack.

Until then, long live the NA

Boulder Mike

I'll take the bait and jump into the frying pan. And I'll give the OP what he wants (go easy on me guys). Note these are all just my opinions. Here it goes. I regret:

1. Not spec'ing my 2016 991.1s the right way
2. Being picky and not being able to find or have patience to wait for a .1s to my liking come on the market
3. $ involved in trading from .1s to .2 GTS

Some more details.

- the 991.1s had black exterior. I love black and hate black. Every so often I buy a black car then sell it 6-12 months later. Just can't keep it clean the way I want. The .2 is GT silver and I'm much happier with the color. Also STG says GT silver is the best color and I trust him.

- The 991.1s was PDK. The PDK was great, and I'm glad I got that experience, but I'm a manual guy at heart. The .2 GTS is 7mt and I'm much happier.

- The 991.1s had 14-ways. I hated them. The .2 GTS has 18-ways and it is a HUGE improvement for me.

- The 991.1s had rubber dash. The .2 has leather. Not a huge factor to me but def an improvement.

Now you read the above and say well you could have spec'd all those things in your .1. EXACTLY. But I didn't. If I would have spec'd the .1 with the above changes I likely wouldn't have ever test driven a .2.

Now for the real differences. The .2 not as aural and I was worried about that but the exhaust is WAY better than I expected. I know someone (yes you R Rated) is now going to re-post the vacuum cleaner sound. The .2 is a better DD (more refined IMO)which is what I'm using it for. It's not a weekend car.

So if the 991.1 and 991.2 were both released at the same time and same price which would I get? Not sure. Both awesome. Probably .2 due to my usage of car but in this case it cost me a lot to move up.

One last point I do a lot of very high elevation driving and their is a noticeable power difference in .2.

sticky

This is not a fair assessment as the 3.0 is available in RWD or AWD forms. Narrow or widebody.

The Turbo does not have as many options as far as configurations.

I like a lighter rear wheel drive 911 so the 991.2 Carrera and S offer something unique with a Turbo powerplant in the lineup.

sticky

This guy gets it.

Needsdecaf

I love how there are all these statements about how the 3.8 NA engine is underpowered and weak. lol. Where have you been throughout the 997.2 and 991.1 eras? Where were all the opinions that the car was underpowered and weak when there was no 3.0T engine? Oh yeah, you were all too busy praising how wonderful the 3.8 engine was.

Yes, without a doubt the .2 turbo car has significantly more power than the .1 and is more usable. But to call the .1 weak is just showing your disregard for the past. By your measures the 993 and 964 are grossly underpowered. You probably think a Carrera is downright dangerous to drive in modern traffic. Yeah, that's why the values on those cars keep rising.

Give me a break.

I simply don't understand the attitude on either side of this debate. People will have preferences. I have a lot of respect for the turbo cars and the .2 Carreras in general. The improvements to the chassis are substantial and noticeable. But just because the car is "better" doesn't mean people have to stop liking the old car. I see plenty of PCA members each month, and there are only a few 991's in the group. Those owners with 997's, 993's 964's and gasp, even 996's seem to love their outdated, slow cars. So why all the hate? Enjoy what you like.

sticky

I just assumed you knew what we were talking about but as you do not, here is the source: https://www.ukimediaevents.com/engineoftheyear/



As already stated the 3.4 and 3.8 from the 991.1 never were awarded and never won their categories. They got spanked by the M3's S65 V8 as they should which dominated that category. They were never the best Porsche engines of that displacement category. These are just facts.

How the 3.4 is more fun to drive than the 3.8 I have no clue. Yay, let's have the same engine design but even smaller and even slower! The longer it takes to get to 100 miles per hour the more I can appreciate the speed once I get there next week.


No, it is a fact the automotive industry is in the golden age of horsepower. A Porsche 911 is not a Civic and I have no idea why you would bring one up.

Why does Porsche produce the Turbo? Why does Porsche make a GT2 with 700 horsepower?

If you think Civics are not underpowered well then you found the perfect car for yourself. The Type R sounds like your thing. Enjoy.

sticky

In the 997.2 and 991.1 eras I would have never considered a Carrera or Carrera S due to how weak they are. What's strong about it?

Now that Porsche gave the Carrera a pair of *****, game on.

sticky

Yes, exactly, that would be Ferrari owners.

sticky

The sad look on the face of a 991.1 or 997 owner after reality sets in is the priceless look I love.

Rambler_13

I don’t have the 3.0 turbo but I’ll speak about my experience in general with the 3.8 turbo. As a naturally aspirated lover myself, I recently traded my 991 4GTS for a 991.1 Turbo S. In terms of throttle response, while the GTS was really good, it did not feel nearly as sharp as the response in my E92M before that with 8 ITBs. The GTS’s response felt notably slower which was one of my earliest observations after moving on from the M. So for a naturally aspirated car, my GTS’s throttle response did not blow me away like with the M. With the Turbo S, once I’m above 3k, I feel like the throttle response is better than in my GTS. Maybe it’s just seat perception but it feels closer to my M. Could also be other factors too like PDK vs. 7MT. In any case, I do not believe it is slower than the GTS. Throttle response should not be confused with turbo lag. Yes, under 2300 rpms or so, there is a big wait for it moment before the rush comes if you mash the pedal and want a big surge in power. But when driving spiritedly, this is irrelevant since I’m never in that range.

Another point about the 991 Turbo motor is that you have to apply the throttle pretty liberally for the boost to come on. So if you modulate the throttle so there’s no boost, it still exhibits N/A like characteristics. You can give it a fair amount of throttle too before any boost arrives. I’ve been experimenting with this using the boost gauge. It's just hard to do because the power is so much fun and doing that takes some will power. But once above 3k rpm, even when the boost does come on, it's very linear. Yeah, it does sound like an angry vacuum but an angry vacuum can also sound pretty damn good! And the sound is much more muted, like being under water or listening to a symphony behind a closed door.

Also, no way the 991.1 NA is under powered or dated by any stretch, no way. It has a wonderful balance of usable power.

sticky

You literally have a dyno overlay on the first page showing how underpowered it is.

The 3.4 liter is making the kind of power my E46 M3 did from a smaller I6 back in 2001.

I would call that severely underpowered and dated. Pretending otherwise is just burying your head in the sand.

R_Rated

these are the same people that claim no lag... these statements are foolish and ignorant.

I'm shocked at the defensiveness and need for validation and insecurities. Especially the personal attacks towards my posts which clearly validated the pros and cons of each gen.

sticky

Would you kindly highlight where people (plural) claim there is no lag on the new motors?