R_Rated

I'm in my mobile but will copy paste later. Tons of comments to that effect. Many in this very thread. The most outrageous one is the reference to the Gts having less lag than the base.

sticky

Perhaps my reading comprehension needs work but on page 1 is where that statement was made by a single person, not people (certainly not tons), and it was quickly corrected that the GTS due to its larger wheels would have more lag and not less.

You then proceeded to group anyone discounting the 991.1's power as substandard as saying there is not any lag while calling them foolish and ignorant. Right here:

Hmm... feel free to correct the record.

Chris C.

Since this thread devolved anyway, here's an interesting video of a 991 3.4 - yes that weak inadequate motor, up against the 475hp (dyno proven, not BMW rating) m4 superior Turbo car under very controlled and instrumented conditions with the same driver. Still think it's a weak engine or old weak 2011 car?

I know, one data point with pro driver on a track and not stoplight racing, but the point is it ain't always about Hp and new technology it's also about feel and predictability.

drcollie

Some of you guys here should stop being so combative - you come across as arrogant and self-important. Maybe try dialing it back a bit...

I've been driving 911's since 1974 when I got my first one. I'm now on # 5. That doesn't make me the smartest person on 911's but it does give me 43 years of owning one from my early 911E (1970) to my 991S (2014). along with some other brands like Corvettes, BMW's and Aston Martins.

A Porsche has always been a horsepower car, when you get it up on the cams and off it goes, typically 3,600 rpm or higher. The new 991.2's are an effort to appeal to the younger buyer that wants torque, and also for fuel economy issues. It's a heavier, and more complex engine.

They have never been dragsters, they are cornering and braking cars - handling cars. If you want to race in a straightaway, there are much better cars for less money.

I'm an old 3-pedal, naturally aspirated kind of guy. I like rowing the box and getting on the power band. It's old school, traditional and suits me well. The guys that have the twin turbos and PDK trans enjoy them equally, I'm sure. All depends on what you want. Go forth and enjoy!

KenTO

OP asked a simple question. The answer is NO.

sticky

I do, yes, incredibly so.

I'm not sure what you are giving the 3.4 props there for when it is the 911 design, weight, and suspension that wins that battle not the motor. If anything, the 3.4 is holding it back.

The M4 isn't particularly impressive around the track. Even the GTS variant which is more money than a 991.2 Carrera S loses to a Carrera S around the track. The new M3 and M4 are nothing special IMO beyond making a lot of power easily.

How does any of that change this?



A difference of 170 lb-ft of torque at 2500 rpm. I mean, if that's not weak what exactly is weak? Aren't we discussing the engines?

96redLT4

Ooooh. Try saying that at the Concorso Italiano today. Someone in Gucci loafers would probably throw their chianti in your face

J

R_Rated

I won't and you continue to make dumb remarks that expose your inexperience with these cars or any sports cars.

R_Rated

yes. Porsche puts the power down in a far superior way. A car is much more than numbers. Also, this driver is a lot more consistent than most of us would be. Excellent video to prove this point.

I'll also add that I doubt many have regrets but the sentiment of us that could update but chose not to also has merit. My comments have been objective and nodded the forte of each. Each car is distinct but to say one is "underpowered" is just rubbish and ignorant.

sticky

Translation: Whoops, caught in a lie so I'll resort to personal attacks.

An adult would apologize, not throw a tantrum.

stout

^ Yes.

991.2 has a keener, more communicative chassis than the 991.1, imho. The 991.2 steering wheel and PCM updates are hard to argue with, as well—though neither would get me out of a 991.1. The 991.2 chassis might, however.

People can argue engine preference til the cows come home. NA vs turbo is like coupes and convertibles (or Targas), manuals and PDK, 986/987/981 and 996/987/991, etc. It's okay to like all of the above, and then pick one or two. Or three. Man need not live on .1 or .2 alone—nor justify his/her preferences. OP's question was honest. There is some great feedback, but I wonder how many who have not spent significant and useful time in both 991s are weighing in here? Both are great...



pete

NVRANUF

No regrets.

While I have thoroughly enjoyed previous NA 911s, I'm happy to experience and completely enjoy all aspects of Porsche's technical progression first hand. Including but not limited to turbos (and PDK ).

Rocket_boy

Simply untrue,....my 991.1 GTS has never had issues beating ANY of the cars you mentioned above. A work associate has a new Shelby GT350,....my GTS is faster (he thought he had to show how fast it was the other day, lol). Neighbor has an M4,...definitely not as fast by a good margin. (we swapped cars for an hour, he now wants a Porsche)

The fact is,.....the only reason Porsche went with a Turbo motor for the 991.2 is for Government and other markets outside the US restricting engine size, otherwise they would have just given us a bump of HP and maybe some torque to the 3.8L. (I would have loved to see a 4.0L 450~475HP NA engine!)

If anyone thinks Porsche wanted to add two turbos, intercoolers, all the associated cooling updates, oil lines, etc. to the 911 and then charge a marginal amount more for it is crazy. They simply did not want to do it, but were forced to. Turbo engines only save on gas if you don't spool them up,....what a joke it all is. Yep, you can mod a turbo all day,....you can also blow them up all day, void your warranty, and have lots of other "fun" with them. (NA too) People that usually encourage these mods are often the first cry-babies on lists such as these when something happens and Porsche does nothing,...then they are "evil" for some reason

Porsche being the engineers they are decided to make lemonade out of lemons by giving the public a great engine in the 3.0L tt. It's about as close to a NA engine response as you can get, but there still is some lag. Hats off to Porsche for the job they did.

Would I trade my 991.1 GTS for a 991.2 GTS,....oh heck no!, its just not that far "ahead" of mine (I've driven several) It's quicker for sure, but not as much fun at least for me.

I'll simply wait for the 992 GTS and make more evaluations then. After it shows, everything 991.x will take a dive. The NA 991.1 might hold their value a little better percentage wise just due to the NA engine, but otherwise the new series will trump all.

Sadly if Porsche doesn't do something really special with the 992 styling (torn on the first photos) then my NA GTS may be my last Porsche.

sticky

The GTS is faster because the GT350 is manual only. I'm guessing your car is PDK? The GT350 even loses to an automatic 6th gen Camaro SS: http://www.****************/content.p...utomatic-makes

That Camaro is beating you, easily. Not even counting the ZL1, again, beating you easily. Not even counting the CTS-V, again, beating you easily. Then you have the Corvettes, again, beating you easily.

The amount of cars to list that are faster would take too long. Suffice it to say, the list is long enough that a 991.1 is simply not for me. The 991.2 on the other hand...

Yes, the M4 is faster is as well. As is the Performance Package M4.

Let's not act like the 991.2 is going to blow up from a tune. Porsche gives it a range of 370-450 hp themselves with plenty built in there. It's a Porsche tuning value and the best one they ever offered in their history. If you're into power, it's no discussion.

Go with whatever makes you happy but let's not pretend the 991.1 can keep up with much of anything these days.

JCviggen

Making more than 100 HP/litre reliably out of an NA engine isn't bad. I've had enough experience with those BMW 3.2s to know that they have a ton of issues and, unlike the Porsche, always struggled to make rated power.

And because Porsche was comfortably getting them to the power level they didn't want to exceed, there's more power (and particularly torque) there if you want to go and find it.

At the end of the day, of course it can't match what a turbo engine can do in terms of raw figures. It's not hard to find old turbo engines making more out of less displacement than the 3.0 flat six is doing now either, but none of that matters. Porsche's reasons for going turbo aren't that they really wanted or needed to, but rather that regulations forced their hand along with that of other European car makers. There's more to enjoying a car and its engine than power and torque, and some people will prefer the low RPM shove that turbos provide where others get giddy from the power gradually building to a crescendo with an NA. Whatever floats your boat, but figures are never going to be the whole story.