Any regrets upgrading from NA to Turbo
08-19-2017, 10:06 PM
#106
If you like your your 911 that is what really matters.
99.9% of the population will never have the opportunity to drive or own a 911. Be thankful that you all have the financial means to own one, regardless of the specs or the time slip.
If bragging rights are so important, man up and go buy a Mclaren F1 or a 918.
99.9% of the population will never have the opportunity to drive or own a 911. Be thankful that you all have the financial means to own one, regardless of the specs or the time slip.
If bragging rights are so important, man up and go buy a Mclaren F1 or a 918.
08-19-2017, 10:10 PM
#107
Rennlist Member
Some of you guys here should stop being so combative - you come across as arrogant and self-important. Maybe try dialing it back a bit...
I've been driving 911's since 1974 when I got my first one. I'm now on # 5. That doesn't make me the smartest person on 911's but it does give me 43 years of owning one from my early 911E (1970) to my 991S (2014). along with some other brands like Corvettes, BMW's and Aston Martins.
A Porsche has always been a horsepower car, when you get it up on the cams and off it goes, typically 3,600 rpm or higher. The new 991.2's are an effort to appeal to the younger buyer that wants torque, and also for fuel economy issues. It's a heavier, and more complex engine.
They have never been dragsters, they are cornering and braking cars - handling cars. If you want to race in a straightaway, there are much better cars for less money.
I'm an old 3-pedal, naturally aspirated kind of guy. I like rowing the box and getting on the power band. It's old school, traditional and suits me well. The guys that have the twin turbos and PDK trans enjoy them equally, I'm sure. All depends on what you want. Go forth and enjoy!
I've been driving 911's since 1974 when I got my first one. I'm now on # 5. That doesn't make me the smartest person on 911's but it does give me 43 years of owning one from my early 911E (1970) to my 991S (2014). along with some other brands like Corvettes, BMW's and Aston Martins.
A Porsche has always been a horsepower car, when you get it up on the cams and off it goes, typically 3,600 rpm or higher. The new 991.2's are an effort to appeal to the younger buyer that wants torque, and also for fuel economy issues. It's a heavier, and more complex engine.
They have never been dragsters, they are cornering and braking cars - handling cars. If you want to race in a straightaway, there are much better cars for less money.
I'm an old 3-pedal, naturally aspirated kind of guy. I like rowing the box and getting on the power band. It's old school, traditional and suits me well. The guys that have the twin turbos and PDK trans enjoy them equally, I'm sure. All depends on what you want. Go forth and enjoy!
08-19-2017, 10:37 PM
#108
08-19-2017, 10:40 PM
#109
Classic response! LOL
08-19-2017, 10:47 PM
#110
Loved taking my underpowered 991.1 S out on some windy country roads today. Reveling in its song, enjoying the satisfying snick of the shifter, and the perfect weighting of its helm. Sure I would have enjoyed a .2 just as much (except for the wooshing but that is my personal problem). Some of the attitude in this thread makes it clear why people think Porsche drivers are trying to, um, compensate for parts of their anatomy. All 991s are fantastic cars and I'd be proud to own any of them.
Cheers,
NF
Cheers,
NF
08-19-2017, 10:47 PM
#111
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yes, it's called no back seat. But thanks for playing.
08-19-2017, 10:51 PM
#112
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-19-2017, 11:21 PM
#113
That doesn't change anything regarding the reality of performance.
08-19-2017, 11:22 PM
#114
Rennlist Member
I don't think you understand what 911 ownership is about. Nobody cares about quarter-mile dragstrip times here, this is not bimmerpost. I never understood this obsession when I owned an F30 335i back in the day either. You could build an 8 second Civic with much less money and trouble. Given this is what matters to you, I don't understand why you're not building a 3.8 Turbo or Turbo S either to be honest.
08-19-2017, 11:26 PM
#116
It's extremely difficult to find allocations for the 991.2 GT3. I've asked multiple dealers in my area and none had available allocations. That's why.
I don't think you understand what 911 ownership is about. Nobody cares about quarter-mile dragstrip times here, this is not bimmerpost. I never understood this obsession when I owned an F30 335i back in the day either. You could build an 8 second Civic with much less money and trouble. Given this is what matters to you, I don't understand why you're not building a 3.8 Turbo or Turbo S either to be honest.
I don't think you understand what 911 ownership is about. Nobody cares about quarter-mile dragstrip times here, this is not bimmerpost. I never understood this obsession when I owned an F30 335i back in the day either. You could build an 8 second Civic with much less money and trouble. Given this is what matters to you, I don't understand why you're not building a 3.8 Turbo or Turbo S either to be honest.
I'm building a 991.2 C2 because it is a value, lighter than any other Turbo 911, and revs to 7500 rpm which is higher than the Turbo. Were these aspects not obvious to you?
08-19-2017, 11:41 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
Um I care about performance and as already stated of power didn't matter why would Porsche bother with different models? Why not just build a Carrera and that's that?
I'm building a 991.2 C2 because it is a value, lighter than any other Turbo 911, and revs to 7500 rpm which is higher than the Turbo. Were these aspects not obvious to you?
I'm building a 991.2 C2 because it is a value, lighter than any other Turbo 911, and revs to 7500 rpm which is higher than the Turbo. Were these aspects not obvious to you?
I find that hard to believe given you seem to prioritize straight line speed above all else.I care about performance too bud. I drive my 991.1 4S on the track. I actually got a chance to play around with a tuned F80 M3 this year, both at NJMP Thunderbolt and Watkins Glen. Him running his whatever JB4 map, supposedly puts down more than 500 wheel. On the straights he had time warp speed, but every corner I was glued to his bumper, and when I staged in front, he can't keep up with me on any corner. That's the performance that matters to me. Balanced performance. Brakes, suspension, every other chassis aspect that helps you put down that power and also power. Not power only.
Porsche does make different cars for different folks. They make the Turbo S for you, massive tuning potential, sounds like you can't afford it. They make the GT3 for me, seems like they won't sell it to me unless I'm on some vip list at a dealer, which I'm not. So we'll be stuck with our Carreras.
What I can tell you is that I'm running almost all of the NNJR PCA HPDE calendar as car #34 so you are absolutely welcome to come to any of these events and stage with me to play around a bit. We would put faces to names and I'd see how fast your tuned 991.2 is. I can't say I have too much skill but with some luck I might be able to show you 991.1 S (with a manual too even, so archaic) might not be as slow or underpowered as you think.
08-19-2017, 11:50 PM
#118
C'mon now, you're building the 3 liter Carrera because it's lighter and revs higher? I find that hard to believe given you seem to prioritize straight line speed above all else.
I care about performance too bud. I drive my 991.1 4S on the track. I actually got a chance to play around with a tuned F80 M3 this year, both at NJMP Thunderbolt and Watkins Glen. Him running his whatever JB4 map, supposedly puts down more than 500 wheel. On the straights he had time warp speed, but every corner I was glued to his bumper, and when I staged in front, he can't keep up with me on any corner. That's the performance that matters to me. Balanced performance. Brakes, suspension, every other chassis aspect that helps you put down that power and also power. Not power only.
Porsche does make different cars for different folks. They make the Turbo S for you, massive tuning potential, sounds like you can't afford it. They make the GT3 for me, seems like they won't sell it to me unless I'm on some vip list at a dealer, which I'm not. So we'll be stuck with our Carreras.
What I can tell you is that I'm running almost all of the NNJR PCA HPDE calendar as car #34 so you are absolutely welcome to come to any of these events and stage with me to play around a bit. We would put faces to names and I'd see how fast your tuned 991.2 is. I can't say I have too much skill but with some luck I might be able to show you 991.1 S (with a manual too even, so archaic) might not be as slow or underpowered as you think.
I find that hard to believe given you seem to prioritize straight line speed above all else.I care about performance too bud. I drive my 991.1 4S on the track. I actually got a chance to play around with a tuned F80 M3 this year, both at NJMP Thunderbolt and Watkins Glen. Him running his whatever JB4 map, supposedly puts down more than 500 wheel. On the straights he had time warp speed, but every corner I was glued to his bumper, and when I staged in front, he can't keep up with me on any corner. That's the performance that matters to me. Balanced performance. Brakes, suspension, every other chassis aspect that helps you put down that power and also power. Not power only.
Porsche does make different cars for different folks. They make the Turbo S for you, massive tuning potential, sounds like you can't afford it. They make the GT3 for me, seems like they won't sell it to me unless I'm on some vip list at a dealer, which I'm not. So we'll be stuck with our Carreras.
What I can tell you is that I'm running almost all of the NNJR PCA HPDE calendar as car #34 so you are absolutely welcome to come to any of these events and stage with me to play around a bit. We would put faces to names and I'd see how fast your tuned 991.2 is. I can't say I have too much skill but with some luck I might be able to show you 991.1 S (with a manual too even, so archaic) might not be as slow or underpowered as you think.
Furthermore, the 991.2 C2 is much cheaper than the Turbo S. Put on similarly sized turbos or even larger Turbos and the C2 will win a straight line run. Lighter car, lower drivetrain losses, plus less drag due to the narrow body. It's simple physics.
I believe your story about the M4 pulling you but you regaining the advantage in the corners. Think of the 991.2 as having a better engine than the M4 but with less weight in a better handling package. The best of all worlds.
Regarding whether I can afford the Turbo S think what you want. The 991.2 was purchased specifically to tune and build parts. Maybe when you see some of those parts as well as the results you'll understand. The 991.2 market will be bigger than the Turbo IMO based on volume alone. I take no offense.
I appreciate your invite. I'll extend one as well. You are more than welcome to come to any roll on events I host and see how horribly outclassed your 991.1 is.
08-20-2017, 12:02 AM
#119
Yes, magazine racing. As in ignoring independent real world results from an actual drag strip.
If you want to ignore the times, go ahead. Even your magazine trap speed spread of 118-120 for the F80 M3 shows there is more than enough mile per hour there to run an 11.6X with a good 60 foot. Which is exactly what you see on the slip but I guess you don't know how to read them. Nothing to be ashamed of.
This is what the 991.2 is already doing, sorry to burst your bubble:
Heh.
Regarding the engines, Porsche is still doing naturally aspirated motors. In the Carrera, S, and GTS they are reducing costs. The same thing with the 982 four-cylinder which shares the 9A2 architecture. It's about sharing parts across platforms.
How does Ford deliver a high revving 5.2 liter V8? How does Dodge do an 8.4 liter V10? How about Chevrolet and their 6.2 liter LT1? Are they just more talented?
It's about making money.
Regardless, the 9A2 3.0 is still much stronger than your 991.1 GTS which is outdated and slow as already stated and proven with multiple timeslips. Deal with it.
If you want to ignore the times, go ahead. Even your magazine trap speed spread of 118-120 for the F80 M3 shows there is more than enough mile per hour there to run an 11.6X with a good 60 foot. Which is exactly what you see on the slip but I guess you don't know how to read them. Nothing to be ashamed of.
This is what the 991.2 is already doing, sorry to burst your bubble:
Heh.
Regarding the engines, Porsche is still doing naturally aspirated motors. In the Carrera, S, and GTS they are reducing costs. The same thing with the 982 four-cylinder which shares the 9A2 architecture. It's about sharing parts across platforms.
How does Ford deliver a high revving 5.2 liter V8? How does Dodge do an 8.4 liter V10? How about Chevrolet and their 6.2 liter LT1? Are they just more talented?
It's about making money.
Regardless, the 9A2 3.0 is still much stronger than your 991.1 GTS which is outdated and slow as already stated and proven with multiple timeslips. Deal with it.
Dude,....finally a picture of your car and you were right, what mods! You got option XYZ - "Mini Me Size" and CR24 "Chromium Paint"
And once again we have another time slip that absolutely shows nothing at all pertaining to what car it is. Does your neighbor get tired of you digging in his trash for these?
Porsche saving money on building turbo engines, surely you can't be serious. All you have is a smaller piston and/or rods in exchange for two turbos, two intercoolers, additional cooling, oil lines, etc. for a turbo model. The NA engines were much less costly for sure and were really shared across platforms as the whole sports car lineup used just about the same engine with just displacement changes. With the advent of the turbo engines you now have twice as many engines in the lineup.
Want to know why GT3s and 911Rs are so sought after? NA engines that sing and not a Turbo in site.
Lets say there were two options for a GTS engine today,....
Present 3.0 turbo or a 4.0L NA. The NA with a little more HP, the turbo with a little more torque. What do you think would sell better? Got news for you, it would not be the turbo.
08-20-2017, 12:08 AM
#120
Dude,....finally a picture of your car and you were right, what mods! You got option XYZ - "Mini Me Size" and CR24 "Chromium Paint"
And once again we have another time slip that absolutely shows nothing at all pertaining to what car it is. Does your neighbor get tired of you digging in his trash for these?
Porsche saving money on building turbo engines, surely you can't be serious. All you have is a smaller piston and/or rods in exchange for two turbos, two intercoolers, additional cooling, oil lines, etc. for a turbo model. The NA engines were much less costly for sure and were really shared across platforms as the whole sports car lineup used just about the same engine with just displacement changes. With the advent of the turbo engines you now have twice as many engines in the lineup.
Want to know why GT3s and 911Rs are so sought after? NA engines that sing and not a Turbo in site.
Lets say there were two options for a GTS engine today,....
Present 3.0 turbo or a 4.0L NA. The NA with a little more HP, the turbo with a little more torque. What do you think would sell better? Got news for you, it would not be the turbo.
And once again we have another time slip that absolutely shows nothing at all pertaining to what car it is. Does your neighbor get tired of you digging in his trash for these?
Porsche saving money on building turbo engines, surely you can't be serious. All you have is a smaller piston and/or rods in exchange for two turbos, two intercoolers, additional cooling, oil lines, etc. for a turbo model. The NA engines were much less costly for sure and were really shared across platforms as the whole sports car lineup used just about the same engine with just displacement changes. With the advent of the turbo engines you now have twice as many engines in the lineup.
Want to know why GT3s and 911Rs are so sought after? NA engines that sing and not a Turbo in site.
Lets say there were two options for a GTS engine today,....
Present 3.0 turbo or a 4.0L NA. The NA with a little more HP, the turbo with a little more torque. What do you think would sell better? Got news for you, it would not be the turbo.
The 9A2 is a modular architecture. There is a reason the 781 Boxster/Cayman share the exact same bore and stroke. The 781 S just gets a bore bump. Exact same engine family built at the same factory. Welcome to the modern world of modular turbo engines.
I love the 911R and GT3. I'll still smoke them though.
Go ahead and buy a 911R. I'm fine with what I have and the faster car. I like to tune, thanks.