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I was going through. some of the other forums and saw a question regarding differences between brakes and the new PFC's brakes that came out earlier this year (essentially cup brakes). A fellow rennlister asked about g's under breaking so was curious and looked into it. As you all know our cars are heavy and even after all of the mods, my car still pretty heavy @ 3,800 lbs 1/2 tank of fuel and driver. When the PFC's first started coming out, Mike was on me to do this upgrade and I was originally hesitant in making the switch as i had found a good sweet spot with a combination of stock calipers, girodiscs and ferrodo pads. My breaking points were pretty much in line with Trackcar at Sebring on his 991.2 3RS with PPCB's. Therefore i didn't really feel that it was that necessary, i could focus more on my driving, tires etc. During this year's David Murray and 48hr, Mike convinced me to make the switch. The data set below are from the first three days with stock calipers, giro discs and ferrodo pads, the other set is from the last day using the PFC's. On the first set of data, the highest yielding lap was 1.7G with Mike Skeen driving the car and me averaging 1.5G's. The other set was me on three different sessions using pfc's with tires that at this point were completely shot. They actually corded on my last session. On this set i yielded 1.945G, 1.957G and 2.05G's.
I was really surprised with the difference specially taking into consideration the tires at this point. So with new tires and a pro driving it, i can definitely see 2.2G's being achieved. Moreover with a lighter car. However, while the overall max g's went up, the biggest gains (lap time) i experienced was under high speed braking like turn 1, turn 13, turn 15 and turn 17. The car was substantially more balanced that with the previous setup. Which as i said before was really really good. My confidence went up substantially through these sectors. I increased my entry speed into 1 by almost 15mph and was able to carry that almost all of the way through. Similarly into 13 or 17 where the back would tend to dance a little. Overall a remarkable package and i take my hats off to Mike and his team for working with PFC and providing us with a setup that was properly balanced for the track and our cars.
I was going through. some of the other forums and saw a question regarding differences between brakes and the new PFC's brakes that came out earlier this year (essentially cup brakes). A fellow rennlister asked about g's under breaking so was curious and looked into it. As you all know our cars are heavy and even after all of the mods, my car still pretty heavy @ 3,800 lbs 1/2 tank of fuel and driver. When the PFC's first started coming out, Mike was on me to do this upgrade and I was originally hesitant in making the switch as i had found a good sweet spot with a combination of stock calipers, girodiscs and ferrodo pads. My breaking points were pretty much in line with Trackcar at Sebring on his 991.2 3RS with PPCB's. Therefore i didn't really feel that it was that necessary, i could focus more on my driving, tires etc. During this year's David Murray and 48hr, Mike convinced me to make the switch. The data set below are from the first three days with stock calipers, giro discs and ferrodo pads, the other set is from the last day using the PFC's. On the first set of data, the highest yielding lap was 1.7G with Mike Skeen driving the car and me averaging 1.5G's. The other set was me on three different sessions using pfc's with tires that at this point were completely shot. They actually corded on my last session. On this set i yielded 1.945G, 1.957G and 2.05G's.
I was really surprised with the difference specially taking into consideration the tires at this point. So with new tires and a pro driving it, i can definitely see 2.2G's being achieved. Moreover with a lighter car. However, while the overall max g's went up, the biggest gains (lap time) i experienced was under high speed braking like turn 1, turn 13, turn 15 and turn 17. The car was substantially more balanced that with the previous setup. Which as i said before was really really good. My confidence went up substantially through these sectors. I increased my entry speed into 1 by almost 15mph and was able to carry that almost all of the way through. Similarly into 13 or 17 where the back would tend to dance a little. Overall a remarkable package and i take my hats off to Mike and his team for working with PFC and providing us with a setup that was properly balanced for the track and our cars.
That's massive deceleration with corded tires! When I was up at TPC last week, I got a chance to see those brakes in person and I must say, it was pure caliper ****. Like you did initially, I recently settled into a set of Giro's and Ferodo's but I can definitely see that setup in my future once I progress further. Those guys up there know their stuff. Thanks for sharing real world data on these brakes!
I was going through. some of the other forums and saw a question regarding differences between brakes and the new PFC's brakes that came out earlier this year (essentially cup brakes). A fellow rennlister asked about g's under breaking so was curious and looked into it. As you all know our cars are heavy and even after all of the mods, my car still pretty heavy @ 3,800 lbs 1/2 tank of fuel and driver. When the PFC's first started coming out, Mike was on me to do this upgrade and I was originally hesitant in making the switch as i had found a good sweet spot with a combination of stock calipers, girodiscs and ferrodo pads. My breaking points were pretty much in line with Trackcar at Sebring on his 991.2 3RS with PPCB's. Therefore i didn't really feel that it was that necessary, i could focus more on my driving, tires etc. During this year's David Murray and 48hr, Mike convinced me to make the switch. The data set below are from the first three days with stock calipers, giro discs and ferrodo pads, the other set is from the last day using the PFC's. On the first set of data, the highest yielding lap was 1.7G with Mike Skeen driving the car and me averaging 1.5G's. The other set was me on three different sessions using pfc's with tires that at this point were completely shot. They actually corded on my last session. On this set i yielded 1.945G, 1.957G and 2.05G's.
I was really surprised with the difference specially taking into consideration the tires at this point. So with new tires and a pro driving it, i can definitely see 2.2G's being achieved. Moreover with a lighter car. However, while the overall max g's went up, the biggest gains (lap time) i experienced was under high speed braking like turn 1, turn 13, turn 15 and turn 17. The car was substantially more balanced that with the previous setup. Which as i said before was really really good. My confidence went up substantially through these sectors. I increased my entry speed into 1 by almost 15mph and was able to carry that almost all of the way through. Similarly into 13 or 17 where the back would tend to dance a little. Overall a remarkable package and i take my hats off to Mike and his team for working with PFC and providing us with a setup that was properly balanced for the track and our cars.
The car is at the shop for some upgrades—exhaust; COBB stage 2 and PDK tune; AP rotors/pads; alignment. I plan to upsize tires to 265/325. Looking at A new set of Forgelines keeping them at 20 to avoid some modifications required for 19” which I went through with my GT. With offsets modified from OEM has anyone used 9.5/12.5 width wheels without rubbing?
Ran with Hooked on Driving at Summit Point this weekend - 80 laps yesterday and 93 laps today. All the instruction I got from PCA Potomac last week got me promoted HOD's advanced group which means I'm allowed to pass anywhere on track with a point-by now rather than just passing zones (Got promoted last weekend AND this weekend). It's been great managing traffic and different zones as there were some really quick cars out there including a Radical SR3 that I was paddocked with.
Goals were to narrow down the variance in lap times (consistency) rather than outright FTD. After running 3 days on Main last weekend with some solid PCA instruction, I picked back up where i left off and narrowed the lap times into a window between 1:24-1:29 consistently (traffic). The last session for both days were 50 minutes so I got major seat time this weekend.
Taking this coming weekend off to spend with my son before Pitt Race next weekend. VIR the week that after before coming back to Summit Main again for 3 more days. Signing up for 1 weekend at VIR Mid October and might head up to Watkins Glen right after that.
The best part of the weekend? My Son coming to watch me.
I ended up connecting with a local RL member and picked up a set of these. They came with BK sub bars. Swung by TPC and they just ran out of harness bars!
Gonna get these babies restored, and ready for Pitt race in 2 weeks! The cool part is that the seller and I had more in common than we knew and he’s gonna be joining the party at Pitt race in his 991 GT3 (my naturally aspirated twin!).
Congrats on scoring the seats, KONG! Sorry I missed your question on the DS1.11 vs 3.12. They feel nearly identical in hard braking, but 3.12 seem to stay in the sweet spot longer, and they are also quieter on the street.
Damn it, #16, just when I think I don't need to drop more money on this car, you give me DATA! That's really not cool. My only question is: after the PFC conversion, is there a street compound I can swap to when not at the track, or are the compounds listed above close to reasonable on the street?
(Edit: I just emailed Tom at TPC to get pricing so I can wrap my head around another mod!! He gave me a very reasonable price, so something to think about.)
Definitely seems like a worthwhile upgrade for record braking performance. I Tried fitting 19" OZ on the GT2RS and the calipers barely touch, but they do, so only option seems to be a brake swap like yours and $$$ to be able to fit 19s..
You can see the line on the caliper and the wheel barrel chipped the yellow paint a bit.
All, I've had my Ferodo DS1.11's for 8 track days and it looks like they've got about 50% left to go. I'm debating if I can go 2 more days on them or if I should swap in a fresh set of 3.12's? I plan on bringing a set anyway just in case. My logic is predicated on me taking 8 days to wear them down to 50%, so another 2 days might bring me down to 35% brake material left. Also, I've never driven Pitt race before (the last time I ran Pitt race, it was still called Beaver Run raceway) so I don't expect to be driving as hard as I would on Summit Point Main which I am familiar with. Am I being reasonably cautious or overly cautious? I simply don't have any reference point developed yet around pad wear.
Here's some pictures - share your thoughts and help keep me honest fellas.
Driver Front
Passenger Front
Also, what about Disc wear? How frequently are you guys going through Giro's (granted, I drive at a much lower level than all of you).
Kong, it's fun to do a visual inspection, and I do it plenty often, but I suggest you get a pad wear tool and use it to gauge the thickness instead.
These are cheap on Amazon, and really help you hone your eye. I don't go on track when I have less than 5mm on the pads, because even when the outer pads have meat, the inner pads could be wearing differently (they usually do) and you could be down to near nothing. My instincts tell me you have another weekend in those pads, but they are in the range to watch them.
For the rotors, Girodisc lists the minimum "recommended" thickness on the hats, and I use a cheap caliper to measure, but I also use my instinct here too. If you see significant cracks between the slotted grooves and the inner or outer edges, they are done. Also, if the grooves are getting nearly worn off, the rotors are done. I'd be surprised if your rotors don't last 5-6 sets of pads.
Kong, it's fun to do a visual inspection, and I do it plenty often, but I suggest you get a pad wear tool and use it to gauge the thickness instead.
These are cheap on Amazon,
Huh, haven't ever used one of these before... I've always visually compared the pad material to the backing plate and want at least as much thickness in pad material for a track day.
I don't know if it's really necessary, but for under $6 shipped on amazon, it's ordered and I'll be a bit more exact!
Huh, haven't ever used one of these before... I've always visually compared the pad material to the backing plate and want at least as much thickness in pad material for a track day.
I don't know if it's really necessary, but for under $6 shipped on amazon, it's ordered and I'll be a bit more exact!
Yeah, especially for PCCB pads, it's just an easier and safer way to check. After a while, it makes your eye check more accurate, especially when it's *just slightly* thicker than the back plate.
08-07-2020, 04:47 PM
