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These days cold hard performance is a commodity easily found. Something exciting and emotional to drive is a rarity...
Originally Posted by DK7
right!!
which car is exciting and emotional in your opinion?
Originally Posted by GrantG
Manual GT3 on order
Dang you, Grant . I was certain I wanted the PDK over the manual for the performance advantage. This series of posts has just shaken that conviction, more than any else I've read.
Ah, ok, but still...
Again an illustration of how difficult it will be to sustain a NA GT line in the future ?! Competition is growing ...
The GT3 still has the heritage, the passion, the raise your arm hairs x factor. It's in a niche of its own. But there's no denying cold hard performance !
Porsche IMO, is one of the few car manufacturers that still "gets it". Grant said it very well, as did the recent Car and Driver review...." it demands that its driver be involved rather than just entertained."
Don't get suckered into chasing horsepower, because you run the risk of creating a car that doesn't make the bits tingle.
Dang you, Grant . I was certain I wanted the PDK over the manual for the performance advantage. This series of posts has just shaken that conviction, more than any else I've read.
Not to pile on too much, but I was happily surprised to see in the "GT3.2 Nordschliefe" thread on this board that the PDK-S only saved 3 seconds on the 13 mile Nurburgring track (translates to under 1 second for nearly all US tracks when well driven).
Porsche 991.2 GT3(Cup 2): 7:18.2
Ferrari 488 GTB(Cup 2): 7:21.63(+3.43)
The reality is that a lot of this is achieved via the new Cup-2 tire. It's clearly a lot stickier than the previous generation. I'd liken it more to Trofeo-R type grip now......the 488 is a crazy fast car, put it on same tires and you'd see a different result. The 488 GTB is faster than it on most other normal size tracks already, but it should be, it's a turbo monster making 661 hp, and 600+ ft/lbs. Some lap times for the .2 are still slower than the 488 GTB at some tracks typical for the Euro mags to test at, but I could car less. It's astonishing that it's even in the ballpark.
Regardless the GT3 always punches well above it's weight, and offers a manual. Which is why I ordered one!
Not to pile on too much, but I was happily surprised to see in the "GT3.2 Nordschliefe" thread on this board that the PDK-S only saved 3 seconds on the 13 mile Nurburgring track (translates to under 1 second for nearly all US tracks when well driven).
Are you saying that " half a car length per shift " is just another pile...?
Are you saying that " half a car length per shift " is just another pile...?
LOL. Here's my point of view. Any of you guys been to Mid-Ohio? If so, recall the sharp right hand turn after the back straight, followed by a series of hills and tight turns starting with the famous Madness. A GT3 991.1 passes me down the back straight, with his 470 horses vs my puny 320. I downshift 5-4-3, heel and toe and rev match at the end of the straight, while the GT3 just burps a few times. Over the next series, the GT3 is on 2nd gear going up the short inclines, burps to third at the crest of the hill as it turns, burps to second on the next turn and uphill, then burps to 3 for the downhill, etc. etc. Me, I'm stuck on 3rd, because I can't be downshifting, rev matching, and turning sharply all at the same time as I crest the hill running out of revs on 2nd. I'm not that good. I'll never be that good. Very, very few people are that good. I've never met anyone who is that good. But with PDK-S, I can be!! LOL.
Okay, didn't mean to turn this into another 2 vs 3 pedal thing. Sorry.
The Sportauto dyno data sheds some light on why some reviewers are raving about the new motor. When overlaid you can see that the new engine is ahead everywhere on torque and far ahead in areas of the low and mid-range. It also has huge area under the curve up top- the GT3 RS touches its peak power briefly. The 991.2 on the other hand stays ahead of that peak figure for a solid 1000 rpm band- much more area under the curve than Porsche's own dyno figures show. If the 991.2 truly revs to 9k (this dyno shows 8.8?) you're looking at ~7% more area under to curve over the top 1/3 of the rev range with the new engine- a bigger difference than between the 991.1 GT3 and the 991.1 RS.
I'd say the reviewers might have been a little over-exuberant, but they nailed it.
Dang you, Grant . I was certain I wanted the PDK over the manual for the performance advantage. This series of posts has just shaken that conviction, more than any else I've read.
I wouldn't abandon PDK just yet.
1.We do not have good information if the 3 sec. difference is accurate.
2. If accurate, was it the same driver in both cars and same day?
3. This is one lap. For all of you tracking your cars, each lap in MT will be slower than equal driver with PDK. Continue to fall further behind with each lap because their shifting cannot be perfect with each lap.
4. The driver of the MT I believe is Kluck and considered one of the best drivers on the planet. 99.9 % of the buyers of GT3 with MT probably have at best 10% of his skill with MT. To extrapolate is skills to amateur MT skills would be like comparing yourself to LeBron James in basketball.
5. Tracking a GT3 probably would represent 5% of the total usage of the GT3. Most other times, the car would be subject to traffic on crowded roads. Now some guys claim they get their jollies shifting in traffic. They represent a time warp few who fail to recognize that technology has passed them by.
So think twice before jumping on the MT bandwagon.
2. If accurate, was it the same driver in both cars and same day?
3. This is one lap. For all of you tracking your cars, each lap in MT will be slower than equal driver with PDK. Continue to fall further behind with each lap because their shifting cannot be perfect with each lap.
2. Yes, Timo Kluk April 28, 2017.
3. This is the challenge that makes lapping entertaining and challenging - trying to more fully master as many of the requirements of fast driving and being able to do so consistently. No prizes for winning, other than satisfaction with doing something well (and having fun doing it). Not that fun to me to pull a paddle which is an electronic switch. In fact, many of the factory drivers that I've seen just leave the PDK in Auto mode...
I'm personally a Luddite,but I want to go full automatic when the time comes. I have no interest in driving. I want a car to take me to the bar with my buddies and when it's time to go home...oh well...don't wake me up until I'm home. Just make a system to spray water in my face when I get there. I don't want to be touching any switches or move any levers either,I want the car to take commands or know what I'm thinking. I want the car to be fully isolated from the outside world. I don't want any sound,smell to enter inside. I want the inside to smell like Valentino perfume. I want massage seats and latte machines. I want 20 cup holders in deviated stitching crocodile leather.
Until then I drive sports cars that are loud,obnoxious and challenging to drive. I don't care about lap times and traffic. If once in a blue moon I encounter traffic,I'll live!
If those torque curves are right that is a huge jump at 2500rpm. Almost 100 ft.lbf increase with the GT3. The RS has a low end torque increase over the 991.1 GT3 I wonder what that looks like compared to the others.
06-08-2017, 12:56 PM
. I was certain I wanted the PDK over the manual for the performance advantage. This series of posts has just shaken that conviction, more than any else I've read.
