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If those torque curves are right that is a huge jump at 2500rpm. Almost 100 ft.lbf increase with the GT3. The RS has a low end torque increase over the 991.1 GT3 I wonder what that looks like compared to the others.
I'll need to find that dyno, but in the meatime it's interesting how little Porsche's released figures look like Sportauto's dynos:
On track in non-racing, for decent drivers, I don't think there's much lap time penalty with manual vs PDK. You're generally downshifting while braking, and can pull upshifts quickly enough. Different story for drivers who aren't decent at shifting, but they're likely well below the limits of the car anyway.
Both manual and PDK are fine, pick whichever you think you'll have more fun with, forget about lap time. The car will be fast either way!
2. Yes, Timo Kluk April 28, 2017.
3. This is the challenge that makes lapping entertaining and challenging - trying to more fully master as many of the requirements of fast driving and being able to do so consistently. No prizes for winning, other than satisfaction with doing something well (and having fun doing it). Not that fun to me to pull a paddle which is an electronic switch. In fact, many of the factory drivers that I've seen just leave the PDK in Auto mode...
Grant, I understand your love of challenges. But as I have stated before, you could do it a lot cheaper and have the same "thrill" and challenge. Get a Miata, Z06 or something else which is MT of the challenge is what it is all about. Also, the reality is 90% of the MT devotees can't drive a MT competently especially on a track.
My view is "involvement" is driving the car at speed keeping it in balance and hitting all the apexes and getting the best time. Playing with the gear shift and clutch while trying to drive at speed can be dangerous and unrewarding.
Don't you and other MT enthusiast find it curious that Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo and Porsche (until the .2GT3) do not offer MT for their high performance cars?
Don't you and other MT enthusiast find it curious that Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo and Porsche (until the .2GT3) do not offer MT for their high performance cars?
Curious is not the word I'd use. But the GT4, 911R, and 991.2 Manual are all the best reviewed and most demanded models in the Porsche lineup.
I also assure you that if Ferrari made a gated manual again, they couldn't build enough to satisfy the pent up demand. It's also the reason that manual versions of older models sell for double the F1 versions.
Manufacturers love auto gearboxes as it gives them more control over the systems and removes significant risks of mechanical and personal damage...
My view is "involvement" is driving the car at speed keeping it in balance and hitting all the apexes and getting the best time. Playing with the gear shift and clutch while trying to drive at speed can be dangerous and unrewarding.
Same for me. After lots of track days in manual cars, I have a been there/done that feeling about it now. I do however enjoy manually shifting the PDK GT3 on track, because it connects me with the car more, and I prefer to remain aware of what gear I'm in. PDK in auto mode feels somewhat detached.
Curious is not the word I'd use. But the GT4, 911R, and 991.2 Manual are all the best reviewed and most demanded models in the Porsche lineup.
I also assure you that if Ferrari made a gated manual again, they couldn't build enough to satisfy the pent up demand. It's also the reason that manual versions of older models sell for double the F1 versions.
Manufacturers love auto gearboxes as it gives them more control over the systems and removes significant risks of mechanical and personal damage...
There are definitely some true driving enthusiasts among Ferrari and lambo owners, but there are a higher percentage of enthusiasts vs poseurs among Porsche owners.
Porsche will never not offer a manual or it would lose significant business, while lambo and Ferrari do just fine without a manual.
Mclaren being a newer company, decided to just skip NA engines and manuals completely, as their thing is embracing the newest automotive tech.
1.We do not have good information if the 3 sec. difference is accurate.
2. If accurate, was it the same driver in both cars and same day?
3. This is one lap. For all of you tracking your cars, each lap in MT will be slower than equal driver with PDK. Continue to fall further behind with each lap because their shifting cannot be perfect with each lap.
4. The driver of the MT I believe is Kluck and considered one of the best drivers on the planet. 99.9 % of the buyers of GT3 with MT probably have at best 10% of his skill with MT. To extrapolate is skills to amateur MT skills would be like comparing yourself to LeBron James in basketball.
5. Tracking a GT3 probably would represent 5% of the total usage of the GT3. Most other times, the car would be subject to traffic on crowded roads. Now some guys claim they get their jollies shifting in traffic. They represent a time warp few who fail to recognize that technology has passed them by.
So think twice before jumping on the MT bandwagon.
E-diff with PDK as well, which must have some kind of positive impact on lap times.
That said, I will keep the manual transmission cars I have before buying a PDK or other automatic in my 'fun' cars.
The Sportauto dyno data sheds some light on why some reviewers are raving about the new motor. When overlaid you can see that the new engine is ahead everywhere on torque and far ahead in areas of the low and mid-range. It also has huge area under the curve up top- the GT3 RS touches its peak power briefly. The 991.2 on the other hand stays ahead of that peak figure for a solid 1000 rpm band- much more area under the curve than Porsche's own dyno figures show. If the 991.2 truly revs to 9k (this dyno shows 8.8?) you're looking at ~7% more area under to curve over the top 1/3 of the rev range with the new engine- a bigger difference than between the 991.1 GT3 and the 991.1 RS.
I'd say the reviewers might have been a little over-exuberant, but they nailed it.
Curious is not the word I'd use. But the GT4, 911R, and 991.2 Manual are all the best reviewed and most demanded models in the Porsche lineup.
I also assure you that if Ferrari made a gated manual again, they couldn't build enough to satisfy the pent up demand. It's also the reason that manual versions of older models sell for double the F1 versions.
Manufacturers love auto gearboxes as it gives them more control over the systems and removes significant risks of mechanical and personal damage...
Those cars are only the most demanded amongst a very small population of potential Porsche customers (i.e., those that spend too much time on RL).
For the entire population of Porsche customers, the demographic demand skews towards Macans and Cayennes.
Those cars are only the most demanded amongst a very small population of potential Porsche customers (i.e., those that spend too much time on RL).
For the entire population of Porsche customers, the demographic demand skews towards Macans and Cayennes.
Maybe add the Panamera too. I saw the new one in the showroom yesterday for the first time, and it looks WAY better than the previous one. I hear it drives much better too, need to give it a try.
Maybe add the Panamera too. I saw the new one in the showroom yesterday for the first time, and it looks WAY better than the previous one. I hear it drives much better too, need to give it a try.
Maybe add the Panamera too. I saw the new one in the showroom yesterday for the first time, and it looks WAY better than the previous one. I hear it drives much better too, need to give it a try.
It is very nice. I had a chance to take one the track at the PEC in LA, and it was a blast. For a 2-ton sedan, it was quite a beast.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
The Sportauto dyno data sheds some light on why some reviewers are raving about the new motor. When overlaid you can see that the new engine is ahead everywhere on torque and far ahead in areas of the low and mid-range. It also has huge area under the curve up top- the GT3 RS touches its peak power briefly. The 991.2 on the other hand stays ahead of that peak figure for a solid 1000 rpm band- much more area under the curve than Porsche's own dyno figures show. If the 991.2 truly revs to 9k (this dyno shows 8.8?) you're looking at ~7% more area under to curve over the top 1/3 of the rev range with the new engine- a bigger difference than between the 991.1 GT3 and the 991.1 RS.
I'd say the reviewers might have been a little over-exuberant, but they nailed it.
Really interesting that. Just wondering, would you have the sportauto dyno numbers of the 4.0RS to put up on the same graph as well?
06-08-2017, 08:00 PM
