Market Glut....GT3 and gt3rs ?
04-29-2017 | 08:29 AM
#256
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 8
From: Cleveland
I don't think there's anything wrong with asking $20K or $40K or whatever off of a car. I think it's all about knowing the car you're looking at and how you ask. A buyer always has a number and a seller always has a number, and there's nothing wrong in my mind with either party trying to get the best deal they can.
I have no idea why either buyer or sellers (and I've seen plenty of sellers do this) get pushy, impolite or demeaning when it comes to doing deals. They think they can bully, scare or humiliate the other party into a certain position. It's ridiculous.
It's obviously model and year dependent but I've been shopping for a modern classic recently and there are plenty of cars out there around the $150K mark with $20K room in them. Part of the issue is buyers not being knowledgable about what they're buying but another part of the problem is that sellers have such wildly different pricing strategies - and in a softening classic market - wildly differing pricing expectations. Some price reasonably while others price high, waiting for some uninformed buyer to walk though the door and overpay by $50K.
The key is attitude, and respect for the other person. I have no stress and no angst when I do deals. I'm always relaxed and happy, and the other parties attitude doesn't affect my attitude. I know the other party has a number that may or may not work with my number for that car, and it's OK either way. No need for pettiness or aggression.
The best deals are the ones where both parties feel like they got what they wanted and stood by their position and felt respected, but I think the best 'no-deals' should feel exactly the same way.
I have no idea why either buyer or sellers (and I've seen plenty of sellers do this) get pushy, impolite or demeaning when it comes to doing deals. They think they can bully, scare or humiliate the other party into a certain position. It's ridiculous.
It's obviously model and year dependent but I've been shopping for a modern classic recently and there are plenty of cars out there around the $150K mark with $20K room in them. Part of the issue is buyers not being knowledgable about what they're buying but another part of the problem is that sellers have such wildly different pricing strategies - and in a softening classic market - wildly differing pricing expectations. Some price reasonably while others price high, waiting for some uninformed buyer to walk though the door and overpay by $50K.
The key is attitude, and respect for the other person. I have no stress and no angst when I do deals. I'm always relaxed and happy, and the other parties attitude doesn't affect my attitude. I know the other party has a number that may or may not work with my number for that car, and it's OK either way. No need for pettiness or aggression.
The best deals are the ones where both parties feel like they got what they wanted and stood by their position and felt respected, but I think the best 'no-deals' should feel exactly the same way.
04-29-2017 | 10:08 AM
#258
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 281
From: 4MB, HYA
The real irony of the "anti R8" stuff is that the R8 is way more car for the money at sticker vs just about anything else out there. It's just a perception thing from die hard porsche guys...the new one is NA, has over 600HP and the transmission is fantastic. The brakes are fantastic. Bummer about the weight/ AWD but hey nobody's perfect under 700k these days.
R8__________3,287 lb dry
R8 plus______3,205 lb dry
GT3 PDK_____3,152 lb dry
LP 610-4_____3,135 lb dry
GT3 RS______3,130 lb dry
GT3 manual___3,115 lb dry
LP 580-2_____3,062 lb dry
GT4_________2,954 lb dry
...but still AWD, although with the right tires it just means pushing harder to break through the understeer, which is way too fast for the street.
How about a RWD version, does the factory listen to customer to dealer feedback?
04-29-2017 | 10:48 AM
#259
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 47
From: Dallas
The S tronic plus is fairly close to the PDK GT3 in weight;
R8__________3,287 lb dry
R8 plus______3,205 lb dry
GT3 PDK_____3,152 lb dry
LP 610-4_____3,135 lb dry
GT3 RS______3,130 lb dry
GT3 manual___3,115 lb dry
LP 580-2_____3,062 lb dry
GT4_________2,954 lb dry
...but still AWD, although with the right tires it just means pushing harder to break through the understeer, which is way too fast for the street.
How about a RWD version, does the factory listen to customer to dealer feedback?
R8__________3,287 lb dry
R8 plus______3,205 lb dry
GT3 PDK_____3,152 lb dry
LP 610-4_____3,135 lb dry
GT3 RS______3,130 lb dry
GT3 manual___3,115 lb dry
LP 580-2_____3,062 lb dry
GT4_________2,954 lb dry
...but still AWD, although with the right tires it just means pushing harder to break through the understeer, which is way too fast for the street.
How about a RWD version, does the factory listen to customer to dealer feedback?
From Car & Driver (as tested weight):
2016 GT3 RS: 3155 Lbs
2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus: 3684 Lbs (529 Lbs more than the RS)
04-29-2017 | 11:52 AM
#260
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 1
From: Sticks
I believe the Porsche weights listed are wet weights, and the Audi/Lamborghini weights are dry weights. You need to add about 250 Lbs to 300 Lbs to the dry weight to get the wet weight.
From Car & Driver (as tested weight):
2016 GT3 RS: 3155 Lbs
2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus: 3684 Lbs (529 Lbs more than the RS)
From Car & Driver (as tested weight):
2016 GT3 RS: 3155 Lbs
2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus: 3684 Lbs (529 Lbs more than the RS)
04-29-2017 | 12:03 PM
#261
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,487
Likes: 133
From: Europe
Originally Posted by IrishAndy
I don't think there's anything wrong with asking $20K or $40K or whatever off of a car. I think it's all about knowing the car you're looking at and how you ask. A buyer always has a number and a seller always has a number, and there's nothing wrong in my mind with either party trying to get the best deal they can.
I have no idea why either buyer or sellers (and I've seen plenty of sellers do this) get pushy, impolite or demeaning when it comes to doing deals. They think they can bully, scare or humiliate the other party into a certain position. It's ridiculous.
It's obviously model and year dependent but I've been shopping for a modern classic recently and there are plenty of cars out there around the $150K mark with $20K room in them. Part of the issue is buyers not being knowledgable about what they're buying but another part of the problem is that sellers have such wildly different pricing strategies - and in a softening classic market - wildly differing pricing expectations. Some price reasonably while others price high, waiting for some uninformed buyer to walk though the door and overpay by $50K.
The key is attitude, and respect for the other person. I have no stress and no angst when I do deals. I'm always relaxed and happy, and the other parties attitude doesn't affect my attitude. I know the other party has a number that may or may not work with my number for that car, and it's OK either way. No need for pettiness or aggression.
The best deals are the ones where both parties feel like they got what they wanted and stood by their position and felt respected, but I think the best 'no-deals' should feel exactly the same way.
I have no idea why either buyer or sellers (and I've seen plenty of sellers do this) get pushy, impolite or demeaning when it comes to doing deals. They think they can bully, scare or humiliate the other party into a certain position. It's ridiculous.
It's obviously model and year dependent but I've been shopping for a modern classic recently and there are plenty of cars out there around the $150K mark with $20K room in them. Part of the issue is buyers not being knowledgable about what they're buying but another part of the problem is that sellers have such wildly different pricing strategies - and in a softening classic market - wildly differing pricing expectations. Some price reasonably while others price high, waiting for some uninformed buyer to walk though the door and overpay by $50K.
The key is attitude, and respect for the other person. I have no stress and no angst when I do deals. I'm always relaxed and happy, and the other parties attitude doesn't affect my attitude. I know the other party has a number that may or may not work with my number for that car, and it's OK either way. No need for pettiness or aggression.
The best deals are the ones where both parties feel like they got what they wanted and stood by their position and felt respected, but I think the best 'no-deals' should feel exactly the same way.
When I was younger I bought into sellers sales talk. Some actually think it's cool to pay more. In China at the moment. Here it's very important to pay more just to impress someone else.
Growing older and don't care what other people think makes life a lot easier.
I'll let you guys know how it goes with gt2rs. I love Porsches but one thing I don't like is Porsches philosophy when it comes to customization on GT cars.
If it gets to crazy I might turn away .We'll see!
I'm not talking about stitching or PTS. Those things don't interest me much.
04-29-2017 | 05:24 PM
#262
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 281
From: 4MB, HYA
I believe the Porsche weights listed are wet weights, and the Audi/Lamborghini weights are dry weights. You need to add about 250 Lbs to 300 Lbs to the dry weight to get the wet weight.
From Car & Driver (as tested weight):
2016 GT3 RS: 3155 Lbs
2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus: 3684 Lbs (529 Lbs more than the RS)
From Car & Driver (as tested weight):
2016 GT3 RS: 3155 Lbs
2017 Audi R8 V10 Plus: 3684 Lbs (529 Lbs more than the RS)
GT4_________3,050 lbs (PCCB, LWB)
GT3 RS______3,155 lbs (PCCB, LWB, Li, AC and radio delete)
GT3_________3,197 lbs (PCCB)
LP 580-2_____3,351 lbs - estimate based on publicized 72 lbs less than AWD
LP 610-4_____3,423 lbs (LWB) EU, but factory says all markets same
R8 plus______3,684 lbs
R8__________3,794 lbs - estimate based on US brochure 110 lbs more than plus
04-29-2017 | 07:43 PM
#264
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 1
From: Sticks
Interior is nice.
It's fast. Other than that...meh.
I think though I enjoyed it more than my Huracan with basically same engine.
Glad I checked the box...but onward to RS.
04-29-2017 | 07:54 PM
#265
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 92
I literally had the weirdest week looking at these cars. The market changed during the week! Dealers were actually increasing their prices at the end. Fortunately I think I have locked down a nice one for myself to enjoy post haste! I'm just glad I didn't get handled that badly, there still are some reasonable dealerships out there and I can't express how excited I am to be back into one. These cars are selling! I literally had 4 cars sold from underneath me this week! Again, all of us who are paying the extra I really think it's worth it. I'm still actually ahead in the game but really just super excited to get back to driving. no regrets about my deal but still holding my breathe. I am hoping to get down to COTA, maybe meet up with some of the other crazies!
04-29-2017 | 08:19 PM
#266
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 1
From: Sticks
I literally had the weirdest week looking at these cars. The market changed during the week! Dealers were actually increasing their prices at the end. Fortunately I think I have locked down a nice one for myself to enjoy post haste! I'm just glad I didn't get handled that badly, there still are some reasonable dealerships out there and I can't express how excited I am to be back into one. These cars are selling! I literally had 4 cars sold from underneath me this week! Again, all of us who are paying the extra I really think it's worth it. I'm still actually ahead in the game but really just super excited to get back to driving. no regrets about my deal but still holding my breathe. I am hoping to get down to COTA, maybe meet up with some of the other crazies!
I too went through it this past week (well really 2 weeks). A whole lot of take it or leave it. Dealers are not afraid and 2 sold out from me the same day--adios.
I too bought over but happy with deal and allocation I was given.
It's a toy, it's not an investment for me. So I say buy today, enjoy today.
My transport guy is running a day late, so now Weds delivery it looks like, but dealer was nice to open on Sunday to meet him.
Look forward to your incoming
Let me know when you're headed to COTA.
04-29-2017 | 08:32 PM
#267
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 127
From: midwest
No harm no foul. We get low offers on cars all the time. You have your money to spend and I have mine to risk. My overhead for Scottsdale's store is a lot lower than almost any store in the country so we generally have the best pricing on comparable used cars because I am not greedy.
Just need to make sure we make a small profit.
My most recent take a hike stories are from fresno-
Brand new R8 V10 plus. "I'll take it. Will you guys do 25k off?"
I said sir, if I'm going to lose 10,000+ on this brand new R8, I'll sell it to myself, drive the hell out of it for a few thousand miles and then put it back here as a used car. Please make a real offer.
Next guy- "I want a Turbo S coupe".
Ok, we have one that is changeable.
"Here is my spec"
(Sees spec, boring AF) Your spec is pretty (lame)
"I want 20k off"
Ok we will build it, I'll drive it for 20 track days and scuff all your wheels and you can have it for 20k off.
Why lose money on our best inventory??
We are a small store and every day there is someone trying to rob us. I am an honest (if somewhat crass) person and I think because i am young some of these customers try to out macho us.
I'm amendable to a deal if someone is close. Had a lot of people kicking around my speciale and just sold that. That being said unless someone is going to at least give us a crack at servicing their car somewhere I'm not going to give cars away, that's a bad outcome. I go broke and sell to autonation and then you guys are all F'd and have to pay crazy markups on new configurations.
Just need to make sure we make a small profit.
My most recent take a hike stories are from fresno-
Brand new R8 V10 plus. "I'll take it. Will you guys do 25k off?"
I said sir, if I'm going to lose 10,000+ on this brand new R8, I'll sell it to myself, drive the hell out of it for a few thousand miles and then put it back here as a used car. Please make a real offer.
Next guy- "I want a Turbo S coupe".
Ok, we have one that is changeable.
"Here is my spec"
(Sees spec, boring AF) Your spec is pretty (lame)
"I want 20k off"
Ok we will build it, I'll drive it for 20 track days and scuff all your wheels and you can have it for 20k off.
Why lose money on our best inventory??
We are a small store and every day there is someone trying to rob us. I am an honest (if somewhat crass) person and I think because i am young some of these customers try to out macho us.
I'm amendable to a deal if someone is close. Had a lot of people kicking around my speciale and just sold that. That being said unless someone is going to at least give us a crack at servicing their car somewhere I'm not going to give cars away, that's a bad outcome. I go broke and sell to autonation and then you guys are all F'd and have to pay crazy markups on new configurations.
perfect taker for the RS! Give you a ton of credit for sticking in these threads - pricing threads are what they are.
04-29-2017 | 08:35 PM
#268
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 1
From: Sticks
Plenty of real buyers willing to do a little work to get to that win/win deal.
CJ is a good guy and I've bought a 458 from Scottsdale Mac--it was a great deal and happy to buy.
RS wasn't but no biggie, just move to next deal and buy (and I did).
It's the way the exotic car buying works, but I'd buy another car from CJ in a second.
04-29-2017 | 08:40 PM
#269
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 127
From: midwest
Actually they don't always...has to be win/win or walk to the next deal (on both sides).
Plenty of real buyers willing to do a little work to get to that win/win deal.
CJ is a good guy and I've bought a 458 from Scottsdale Mac and it was great. It was a great deal and happy to buy. RS wasn't but no biggie, just move to next deal.
Plenty of real buyers willing to do a little work to get to that win/win deal.
CJ is a good guy and I've bought a 458 from Scottsdale Mac and it was great. It was a great deal and happy to buy. RS wasn't but no biggie, just move to next deal.
04-29-2017 | 08:42 PM
#270
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 1
From: Sticks