991.2 GT3 RS Mule
03-30-2017, 08:59 AM
#121
03-30-2017, 09:21 AM
#122
Race Director
Originally Posted by Waxer
Surprised they are upstaging the .2GT3 with this and drawing attention and sales from 2RS also. If I was ordering a .2GT3 I would be "WTF".
Maybe it will be a LE? It will have to offer more than 25hp more. Maybe active aero and LE?
Real intrigue is mid engined GT on horizon with 992 my bet.
Maybe it will be a LE? It will have to offer more than 25hp more. Maybe active aero and LE?
Real intrigue is mid engined GT on horizon with 992 my bet.
Trust me, the Porsche bean counters DO NOT like anyone making and extra juice off their cars by means of flippers and greedy dealers. They're not Amway. If there's money to be made, they want to be the main recipient of it.
While exclusivity is a nice marketing jingle, PISSING off long time Porsche buyers isn't their intent.
03-30-2017, 09:27 AM
#123
Race Director
Originally Posted by Drifting
I agree that Porsche is smart enough to recognize that most GT enthusiasts prefer NA engines, and that if Porsche continues to make NA GT cars, while their competitors make only turbos, they will continue to serve an important niche market that will pay to play with these NA GT cars.
I personally think that Porsche will continue to make a NA GT3 with a manual option for the next 20 years or more.
The only question I have concerns the RS, as the RS is 1-their top track car which directly competes with the best of Mclaren, Ferarri, AMG, Lambo, etc for Ring times and in magazine competitions, and 2- the RS is supposed to be derived directly from their race cars, and I think the Porsche race cars will be going turbo in the next 2-3 years, particularly as Porsche has been losing races lately.
So while I have every confidence that the GT3 will continue to be made as a NA drivers car with a track focus, but also a manual option, for decades to come, I"m not sure what Porsche will do with the RS starting with the 992 generation.
I think merging the GT3RS with the GT2RS makes the most sense, but I really don't know. Maybe they'll make the GT2RS at their top track car but not limited editions of the GT2RS anymore, because it will be homologation of their race cars, but now start making a limited edition NA GT3RS once every 911 generation?That's an important general principle, but not an absolute truth.
I personally think that Porsche will continue to make a NA GT3 with a manual option for the next 20 years or more.
The only question I have concerns the RS, as the RS is 1-their top track car which directly competes with the best of Mclaren, Ferarri, AMG, Lambo, etc for Ring times and in magazine competitions, and 2- the RS is supposed to be derived directly from their race cars, and I think the Porsche race cars will be going turbo in the next 2-3 years, particularly as Porsche has been losing races lately.
So while I have every confidence that the GT3 will continue to be made as a NA drivers car with a track focus, but also a manual option, for decades to come, I"m not sure what Porsche will do with the RS starting with the 992 generation.
I think merging the GT3RS with the GT2RS makes the most sense, but I really don't know. Maybe they'll make the GT2RS at their top track car but not limited editions of the GT2RS anymore, because it will be homologation of their race cars, but now start making a limited edition NA GT3RS once every 911 generation?That's an important general principle, but not an absolute truth.
The GT2RS is price prohibitive to many as a volume seller in my opinion.
I agree, they will somehow balance the model variants by going Turbo and also having an NA option true to the "driver car" intent of something like the 911R.
03-30-2017, 09:28 AM
#124
Dealer called yesterday for deposit for MSRP .2 GT3.
now the .2 RS photos come out.
What to do? Just buy GT3 drive for 6 months and trade back in?
What is everyone else doing?
now the .2 RS photos come out.
What to do? Just buy GT3 drive for 6 months and trade back in?
What is everyone else doing?
03-30-2017, 09:30 AM
#125
What are odds that Porsche offers a new wheel design on the .2 GT3 RS and GT2 RS? As much as I like the current design, I'll admit that I was a little disappointed to see that the .2 GT3 just carried over the .1 wheels.
03-30-2017, 09:31 AM
#126
Race Director
Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3
Non-GT 992 cars will be a flop just like the 991.2 non-GTs and Porsche knows this. If they are smart (and this is a safe assumption), Porsche will shift more production into GT cars while the getting is good.
I think the Carrera's will still stay Turbo and will become more accepted by the mainstream due to those chasing performance numbers with their BMW neighbors.
The 718's will have to be tweaked. There's NO salvaging the 4 banger. They're a FLOP. No enthusiast or vanilla buyer wants what it offers, and at the HIGH MSRP's they're asking.
I think they were hoping those two models would break past the "enthusiast" driver and get more mainstream with vanilla buyers. One thing why they can't, the prices!! Too high for the average BMW, Vette, and MB cross shoppers.
03-30-2017, 09:37 AM
#127
Race Director
Originally Posted by Scrappy1972
What are odds that Porsche offers a new wheel design on the .2 GT3 RS and GT2 RS? As much as I like the current design, I'll admit that I was a little disappointed to see that the .2 GT3 just carried over the .1 wheels.
03-30-2017, 09:45 AM
#128
Wasn't their talk, rumor once before about moving down stream with a cheaper model prior to the 718 version going turbo that then wound up being shelved?
03-30-2017, 09:59 AM
#129
Race Director
Originally Posted by ExMB
Wasn't their talk, rumor once before about moving down stream with a cheaper model prior to the 718 version going turbo that then wound up being shelved?
This "cheaper model" should be the 718. That thing is OVERPRICED for what you're getting.
You can get a nearly new 991.1 Carrera S for around the same price as a 718. You're talking under 15K miles and $40K off MSRP. Hence the success of the "Hot for Sale" stickie on the 991 Forum. Pre-owned 991.1 Carrera prices leveled off and even have increased in many cases in 2016 to present.
03-30-2017, 10:28 AM
#130
I believe so. They don't want to go anymore downstream with risk of cheapening the brand with sports cars at least.
This "cheaper model" should be the 718. That thing is OVERPRICED for what you're getting.
You can get a nearly new 991.1 Carrera S for around the same price as a 718. You're talking under 15K miles and $40K off MSRP. Hence the success of the "Hot for Sale" stickie on the 991 Forum. Pre-owned 991.1 Carrera prices leveled off and even have increased in many cases in 2016 to present.
This "cheaper model" should be the 718. That thing is OVERPRICED for what you're getting.
You can get a nearly new 991.1 Carrera S for around the same price as a 718. You're talking under 15K miles and $40K off MSRP. Hence the success of the "Hot for Sale" stickie on the 991 Forum. Pre-owned 991.1 Carrera prices leveled off and even have increased in many cases in 2016 to present.
Why would anyone go and buy an outdated vehicle - there is little point. Go and drive a 718S, in comparison the 991.1 C or C2S feels sloppy and at the limit, well there is no comparison at all. The 991.2 GT3RS will out perform the .1RS and .2GT3 - thats how it works with Porsche.
03-30-2017, 10:33 AM
#131
Three Wheelin'
Same was true on RS.1 production no? Hence the cantilevered indicator lights and the taller ribs at front of wheel arch.
03-30-2017, 10:52 AM
#133
Race Director
If you paid over you should of known what you were getting in too. Too many people keep on thinking I want to be the one who has the last NA RS or the last Manual-NA GT3. If you play the market you pay the price-no pun intended. Just like some of the "R" guys complaing to Porsche that they should not of put a manual in the .2GT3. The nerve to bitch at Porsche because they they did this. Porsche never said any of these cars would be Collector items. Too many consumers looking to have the Golden ticket. I love all of this because it makes me laugh
03-30-2017, 10:55 AM
#134
Three Wheelin'
Surprised they are upstaging the .2GT3 with this and drawing attention and sales from 2RS also. If I was ordering a .2GT3 I would be "WTF".
Maybe it will be a LE? It will have to offer more than 25hp more. Maybe active aero and LE?
Real intrigue is mid engined GT on horizon with 992 my bet.
Maybe it will be a LE? It will have to offer more than 25hp more. Maybe active aero and LE?
Real intrigue is mid engined GT on horizon with 992 my bet.
03-30-2017, 10:58 AM
#135
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Agree that in most generally optimized engines, you must increase displacement to increase torque, and I don't expect more torque in the .2 RS. which will share a 4.0L sized engine with the .2 GT3.
However, you don't have to increase displacement for more horsepower, there are many ways to skin that cat.
However, you don't have to increase displacement for more horsepower, there are many ways to skin that cat.
Try this simple hp calculator:
http://spicerparts.com/calculators/h...que-calculator
If our motor makes 500hp at 8,250 rpm, then the calculator above tells us it's making 318.3 ft-lbs at that engine speed. No cats, no skinning - it's not an estimate - it's an absolute truth. Check the HP and TQ curves published to see results at other parts of the power band. If you find any points of discontinuity between the hp and tq curves, it's an error with the Porsche published charts (with a marketing imperative, not a problem with the math).
The only way this motor can make more than 500hp is for it to make more than 318.3 ft-lbs at the power peak (8,250 rpm) or it can make that much torque or more at a higher engine speed...
Last edited by GrantG; 03-30-2017 at 11:41 AM.