OT: Lightweight Huracan with sub 7min Ring time (beats 918)
03-06-2017, 11:04 PM
#211
http://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new...erformante-lap
Despite his monumental effort, Mapelli says the Performante is an easy car to drive on the limit. He humbly states that anyone could go fast in it at the ‘Ring. I'm not so sure I could.
A lucky few customers may be able to find out for themselves, because Mapelli confirms that the car on sale will run with exactly the same mechanical and chassis setups as the one he took to the ‘Ring
A lucky few customers may be able to find out for themselves, because Mapelli confirms that the car on sale will run with exactly the same mechanical and chassis setups as the one he took to the ‘Ring
03-06-2017, 11:51 PM
#212
Drifting
Those pictures are poor examples.
Interior is forged carbon which I agree at first when they quoted me 65k for all forged on the SV it reminded me of plywood in pictures.
Now I love it - looks excellent on the Performante.
Lamborghini was the last car only a few years ago considered owning - cancelled a tdf slot for the SV roadster and while it would have been nice to have a car that tripled the SV is the better car and their sales have gone north so it's not just a few guys buying into the brand.
Over the 918 lap vs the Performante - talked to the Lambroghini guys for a good three hours and asked enough questions as did others. If anyone thinks it's slower and or the SV you are free to think it - above my pay grade to change it
Interior is forged carbon which I agree at first when they quoted me 65k for all forged on the SV it reminded me of plywood in pictures.
Now I love it - looks excellent on the Performante.
Lamborghini was the last car only a few years ago considered owning - cancelled a tdf slot for the SV roadster and while it would have been nice to have a car that tripled the SV is the better car and their sales have gone north so it's not just a few guys buying into the brand.
Over the 918 lap vs the Performante - talked to the Lambroghini guys for a good three hours and asked enough questions as did others. If anyone thinks it's slower and or the SV you are free to think it - above my pay grade to change it
03-07-2017, 12:00 AM
#213
Drifting
03-07-2017, 12:30 AM
#214
Watching the Mapelli videos back to back, it's pretty clear that what Mapelli
says in the article is true - the steering inputs in the Huracan are
what a high level DE driver looks like, while his oversteer mgmt in the
SV is something possessed by maybe .001% of drivers.
I.e. the Huracan is way easier to drive. Not that normal people could
do the speeds he's doing on the Nordschleife in the Huracan, but you could
at least see them finishing the lap.
The chance of a non-pro driving the SV lap at anything
close to Mapelli's pace and living is about zero.
says in the article is true - the steering inputs in the Huracan are
what a high level DE driver looks like, while his oversteer mgmt in the
SV is something possessed by maybe .001% of drivers.
I.e. the Huracan is way easier to drive. Not that normal people could
do the speeds he's doing on the Nordschleife in the Huracan, but you could
at least see them finishing the lap.
The chance of a non-pro driving the SV lap at anything
close to Mapelli's pace and living is about zero.
03-07-2017, 09:59 AM
#216
03-07-2017, 10:47 PM
#217
Drifting
03-08-2017, 01:40 PM
#219
Glikenhause skepticism https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/videos...rmante-record/
Finally, he opened up the full VBox GPS log from the record lap in question, showing what sure looks like a single session, not the multiple ideal segments glued together as some have speculated.
03-08-2017, 06:57 PM
#220
Drifting
Jim G seeks more attention than the Kardashians his disbelief is just silly and further his belief of the 918 is even more silly.
Someone feel free to ask Jim G or anyone to explain the stack of computers on the 918 passenger seat.
Here is the latest from Jim G. not sure how he compares a production car vs a full race car that is street legal nor do I know what the cost of his car is to a buyer.
Give Lamborghini a lot of credit they upset so many with a modified Huracan
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/gene...ut-nurburgring
Someone feel free to ask Jim G or anyone to explain the stack of computers on the 918 passenger seat.
Here is the latest from Jim G. not sure how he compares a production car vs a full race car that is street legal nor do I know what the cost of his car is to a buyer.
Give Lamborghini a lot of credit they upset so many with a modified Huracan
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/gene...ut-nurburgring
Last edited by nuvolari612; 03-08-2017 at 07:14 PM.
03-08-2017, 08:58 PM
#221
Watching the Mapelli videos back to back, it's pretty clear that what Mapelli
says in the article is true - the steering inputs in the Huracan are
what a high level DE driver looks like, while his oversteer mgmt in the
SV is something possessed by maybe .001% of drivers.
I.e. the Huracan is way easier to drive. Not that normal people could
do the speeds he's doing on the Nordschleife in the Huracan, but you could
at least see them finishing the lap.
The chance of a non-pro driving the SV lap at anything
close to Mapelli's pace and living is about zero.
says in the article is true - the steering inputs in the Huracan are
what a high level DE driver looks like, while his oversteer mgmt in the
SV is something possessed by maybe .001% of drivers.
I.e. the Huracan is way easier to drive. Not that normal people could
do the speeds he's doing on the Nordschleife in the Huracan, but you could
at least see them finishing the lap.
The chance of a non-pro driving the SV lap at anything
close to Mapelli's pace and living is about zero.
Plus blame the computers, especially those involved in optimising the many thousands of performance elements that came together to make the Performante, includng some number carried over from the base version. And an incredible performance from its design and development team, those same teams at Lambo's component suppliers, their test drivers, tuners, including the tuners of its active aero and other active systems, engine, cooling system, suspension, etc etc etc.
It is not a work so much of art as that of an immense engineering pyramid and I am seriously impressed with the whole effort especially following on the heels of the Aventador SV's sub 7 run. Gone are the days when lambos were exotic undriveable beasts with brake discs made from baked bean tin lids.
Plus Marco Mapelli sure as hell knows what he's doing out there, even if I'm not the only racer here perhaps feeling a twinge of sympathy for that last 0,03 seconds of Marco's run?
It would be even more interesting if such records were fully auditable of course, although the nature of selectable and adaptive electronic control systems probably makes that an exercise in futility these day. As evidenced by parent VW groups diesel ECU mapping not long ago, we're not far from the day when a car recognises the driver, the track, knows its in record mode, and optimises all systems accordingly, right down to running dangerously lean by massively relaxing standard operating protections.
Those levels of contextual optimisation are a huge engineering achievement in their own right of course, and do have flow down benefits to street performance, even if no driver will ever see those same performance maps on the street (engine, aero, cooling, suspension, braking, torque, 'stability management', electrical management, dynamic cooling etc etc etc. )
These days, that is just how cars are made, so not calling Lambo out on anything but it does make it harder to fairly compare times between different 'Ring cars and also reduces the predictive value of a model's 'Ring time for its performance in other contexts. And that's before any consideration that a manufacturer's 'Ringer - with sometimes hundreds of milllions of dollars of development money invested and hundreds of millions more in marketing and brand value potentially riding on its lap time - might not have just been drawn randomly off the end of the production line and driven to the 'Ring as is!
Even 'Trofeo R' doesn't necesarily mean the same things between different models of car as manufaturers compound and construction specs for tyres can sometimes vary (eg the 918 got its own specific version if I remember rightly).
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny, with the same going for other manufacturers at the pointy end of things. A near neighbour of theirs at the top of most lists on that front, with recurrent reports of blueprinted engines and huge efforts to prevent anyone from trying to replicate the feats of the 'Ringer using their own standard production build.
Like some others here, I'm a bit of a 'Ring time junkie (got to get there one day to have a play), so while it may be frustrating that comparisons become increasingly less meaningful as the years go by, I remain deeply impressed by the effort and achievement that garland this Huracan Performante. Even taking its stated 600HP with a few grains of salt, that is a spectacular time and I did a triple take when I saw it was just straight naturtally aspirated, Forza Lambo!
Postnote: Just found a Driven article that states the Performante runs a specially developed model specific version of the Trofeo R. But that seems to be becoming par for the course anyway now I suppose.
We're celebrating the 'Ring record obsession here too probably - so take a bow the drivers, Porsche for doing more than anyone else to build up the 'Ring record game, and also to Nissan who arguably most showed other large manufacturers how to take them on at it.
It is not a work so much of art as that of an immense engineering pyramid and I am seriously impressed with the whole effort especially following on the heels of the Aventador SV's sub 7 run. Gone are the days when lambos were exotic undriveable beasts with brake discs made from baked bean tin lids.
Plus Marco Mapelli sure as hell knows what he's doing out there, even if I'm not the only racer here perhaps feeling a twinge of sympathy for that last 0,03 seconds of Marco's run?
It would be even more interesting if such records were fully auditable of course, although the nature of selectable and adaptive electronic control systems probably makes that an exercise in futility these day. As evidenced by parent VW groups diesel ECU mapping not long ago, we're not far from the day when a car recognises the driver, the track, knows its in record mode, and optimises all systems accordingly, right down to running dangerously lean by massively relaxing standard operating protections.
Those levels of contextual optimisation are a huge engineering achievement in their own right of course, and do have flow down benefits to street performance, even if no driver will ever see those same performance maps on the street (engine, aero, cooling, suspension, braking, torque, 'stability management', electrical management, dynamic cooling etc etc etc. )
These days, that is just how cars are made, so not calling Lambo out on anything but it does make it harder to fairly compare times between different 'Ring cars and also reduces the predictive value of a model's 'Ring time for its performance in other contexts. And that's before any consideration that a manufacturer's 'Ringer - with sometimes hundreds of milllions of dollars of development money invested and hundreds of millions more in marketing and brand value potentially riding on its lap time - might not have just been drawn randomly off the end of the production line and driven to the 'Ring as is!
Even 'Trofeo R' doesn't necesarily mean the same things between different models of car as manufaturers compound and construction specs for tyres can sometimes vary (eg the 918 got its own specific version if I remember rightly).
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny, with the same going for other manufacturers at the pointy end of things. A near neighbour of theirs at the top of most lists on that front, with recurrent reports of blueprinted engines and huge efforts to prevent anyone from trying to replicate the feats of the 'Ringer using their own standard production build.
Like some others here, I'm a bit of a 'Ring time junkie (got to get there one day to have a play), so while it may be frustrating that comparisons become increasingly less meaningful as the years go by, I remain deeply impressed by the effort and achievement that garland this Huracan Performante. Even taking its stated 600HP with a few grains of salt, that is a spectacular time and I did a triple take when I saw it was just straight naturtally aspirated, Forza Lambo!
Postnote: Just found a Driven article that states the Performante runs a specially developed model specific version of the Trofeo R. But that seems to be becoming par for the course anyway now I suppose.
We're celebrating the 'Ring record obsession here too probably - so take a bow the drivers, Porsche for doing more than anyone else to build up the 'Ring record game, and also to Nissan who arguably most showed other large manufacturers how to take them on at it.
Yes, looks like it ran 'Ringer tyres, or at least one designed specifically for the models 'Ring performance:
http://www.tyrepress.com/2017/03/lam...rofeo-r-tyres/
I would love to read a report on the custom or hidden system control software and custom maps (ECU, TCU, ABS, Suspension, Steering, Aero etc etc) involved in 'Ring records, but can't imagine that infomation being released.
I would say though - sacrilegious as it may sound - that by the smoothness of the lap in the video, there looks to be some serious voodoo going on with those systems in the Huracan Performante as it was the most boring record lap I've seen yet. Must be getting to the point where the driver drives the controls, the controls drive the computers, and then the computers drive the car pretty much how they see fit. Same driver in the Aventador SV record lap was a riveting spectacle so something's very different this time...
Give me a Ruf Yellowbird lap over the Huracan's anyday.
http://www.tyrepress.com/2017/03/lam...rofeo-r-tyres/
I would love to read a report on the custom or hidden system control software and custom maps (ECU, TCU, ABS, Suspension, Steering, Aero etc etc) involved in 'Ring records, but can't imagine that infomation being released.
I would say though - sacrilegious as it may sound - that by the smoothness of the lap in the video, there looks to be some serious voodoo going on with those systems in the Huracan Performante as it was the most boring record lap I've seen yet. Must be getting to the point where the driver drives the controls, the controls drive the computers, and then the computers drive the car pretty much how they see fit. Same driver in the Aventador SV record lap was a riveting spectacle so something's very different this time...
Give me a Ruf Yellowbird lap over the Huracan's anyday.
Last edited by 996tnz; 03-08-2017 at 11:54 PM.
03-08-2017, 10:21 PM
#222
The way this is worded on jalopnik and the top comment are simply hilarious
Lamborghini Will Come To Your House To Prove It Didn't Cheat On The Nürburgring If That's What It Takes
http://jalopnik.com/lamborghini-will...t-c-1793090394
Lamborghini Will Come To Your House To Prove It Didn't Cheat On The Nürburgring If That's What It Takes
http://jalopnik.com/lamborghini-will...t-c-1793090394
03-08-2017, 10:41 PM
#223
Official base Huracan N-ring time.
Reggiani says that they could only do a 7:20 lap with a regular Huracan 610-4. So, when they started to look into how to make it noticeably quicker on track about two years ago, an active hydraulic wing was the first guess. But that was too slow to react. Lamborghini wanted something that can use the dynamic stall effect and react as fast as the driver, constantly changing the drag/downforce ratio and applying aero vectoring to reduce the steering angle. At the Nürburgring, there's only one long straight, so it's all about the handling in the corners, with efficient braking and acceleration in and out.
03-09-2017, 12:00 AM
#224
To be blunt, I really don't care about this time. What I care about is how it feels to me driving. For some Lamborghini's are their cup of tea. At some point, I'd love to take a Performante out to Sonoma (where my Track Club is based) and wring it out and see how it feels.
It seems like the Performante did get this time, and if so.. congrats. But I can understand the healthy skepticism of people out there. I hope someone does a 488 (speciale version when it comes) vs 675 vs Performante test. Same conditions. Same track. Same driver. Would be interesting.
It seems like the Performante did get this time, and if so.. congrats. But I can understand the healthy skepticism of people out there. I hope someone does a 488 (speciale version when it comes) vs 675 vs Performante test. Same conditions. Same track. Same driver. Would be interesting.
