991.2 GTS, GT3, GT2, GT3 RS, Mission E - Update
01-18-2017, 01:17 PM
#691
Nordschleife Master
No it is not odd. GT3Cup and GT3RSR share the same engine with different HP.
GT3.2RS can keep the same 4.0L but extract more power from it and stay completely safe.
GT3.2 and GT3.2RS sharing the same powerplant but different HP and torque curve is easy and ready.
GT3.2 will be tuned for the manual with faster laptime in PDK-S but the
GT3.2RS will be the laptime and only the laptime, no manual to consider. 25hp difference or even 20 is enough for everybody on this forum to run to the dealer shop and cry for an allocation
Put slightly higher rpm, less weight with exotic materials and you have an unicorn again without reaching the barbecue level of 9000rpm!
GT3.2RS can keep the same 4.0L but extract more power from it and stay completely safe.
GT3.2 and GT3.2RS sharing the same powerplant but different HP and torque curve is easy and ready.
GT3.2 will be tuned for the manual with faster laptime in PDK-S but the
GT3.2RS will be the laptime and only the laptime, no manual to consider. 25hp difference or even 20 is enough for everybody on this forum to run to the dealer shop and cry for an allocation
Put slightly higher rpm, less weight with exotic materials and you have an unicorn again without reaching the barbecue level of 9000rpm!
We know the 991.2 GT2RS is being unveiled late this year early 2018. When is the 991.2GT3RS being developed, tested and unveiled? We know the 992 is coming 2019/2020.
01-18-2017, 01:21 PM
#692
Three Wheelin'
I'd expect the next GT3RS to have some hybrid type system ala the 918.
4.0L 505 HP with electric power putting it around 590 or so.
-Enthusiasts keep the sound of the NA engine but keep up with the competitors.
4.0L 505 HP with electric power putting it around 590 or so.
-Enthusiasts keep the sound of the NA engine but keep up with the competitors.
01-18-2017, 01:36 PM
#693
Rennlist Member
Hopefully doing some high altitude testing in CO where I can catch one...
Trying to recall a precedent that would have so many cars with the same NA engine, just varying degrees of tune. 991.1 RS, 991.1 R, 991.2 GT3, GT4 RS, maybe 991.2 GT3RS? All ranging from ~450 to 510hp? Seems pretty tight. I guess if any car company can slice it that close PAG can.
Also what about the cost to produce? Maybe a detuned 4l for the GT4RS they don't need the unobtanium crank.
Trying to recall a precedent that would have so many cars with the same NA engine, just varying degrees of tune. 991.1 RS, 991.1 R, 991.2 GT3, GT4 RS, maybe 991.2 GT3RS? All ranging from ~450 to 510hp? Seems pretty tight. I guess if any car company can slice it that close PAG can.
Also what about the cost to produce? Maybe a detuned 4l for the GT4RS they don't need the unobtanium crank.
01-18-2017, 01:39 PM
#694
Rennlist Member
01-18-2017, 01:42 PM
#695
Rennlist Member
If this stuff is true, sounds like the new GT3 will be very desirable (more power than RS and R, faster than both, more durable/reliable engine, less cost than each); valuations on the RS and R will come back to earth, and 991.1 GT3 will see a substantial increment of depreciation.
GT4 RS with more power, PDK, and better track tuning out of the box would also be very cool.
Porsche Motorsport division's biggest competition appears to be the "regular" Porsches!
GT4 RS with more power, PDK, and better track tuning out of the box would also be very cool.
Porsche Motorsport division's biggest competition appears to be the "regular" Porsches!
GT3 will not have more HP than RS.
01-18-2017, 01:55 PM
#696
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I'm wondering if there may be some confusion due to 'mechanical' vs metric hp?
It's a difference of about 7 hp for these cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsep...nt_definitions
It's a difference of about 7 hp for these cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsep...nt_definitions
01-18-2017, 02:10 PM
#698
Maybe its me. I just don't see two RS's sharing the same basic engine, and they are the same basic engine except for evolution in some oiling design changes and some DLC coatings even with one putting out 20 more hp and 10 more pounds of torque through some ECU or exhaust mods. We already know they aren't going 4.2L right?
We know the 991.2 GT2RS is being unveiled late this year early 2018. When is the 991.2GT3RS being developed, tested and unveiled? We know the 992 is coming 2019/2020.
We know the 991.2 GT2RS is being unveiled late this year early 2018. When is the 991.2GT3RS being developed, tested and unveiled? We know the 992 is coming 2019/2020.
GT2RS and GT3RS are completely different products with different base customers. I will never buy a GT2RS (presented somewhere in summer this year) because turbos... even same price tag as GT3RS (we know it will never be the case)
01-18-2017, 02:21 PM
#699
Rennlist Member
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...lat-six-engine
2017 Porsche 911 GT3 to get 4.0-litre flat six engine
Set to be revealed at the Geneva show in March, the 2017 911 GT3 will get a power increase to more than 500bhp, up from the 475bhp of its predecessor
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Current generation Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Andrew Frankel Autocar
by Andrew Frankel
18 January 2017
The new Porsche 911 GT3 that's due to be launched at the Geneva motor show in March will have a 4.0-litre flat six engine, according to a well-informed source close to the factory. It will not be the same 4.0-litre engine that's found in the current GT3 RS and 911 R, but an evolution capable of producing "at least" the same 500bhp and up from the 475bhp of the last ‘standard’ GT3.
The main focus of the development work has been to improve further the durability of the engine, resulting in a motor that "has done thousands of kilometres, absolutely flat out, with no problems at all".
As already speculated, the 991-generation GT3 will be available for the first time with a choice of a six-speed manual gearbox or a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic transmission. A plan to stiffen the suspension and make a much more hardcore product has apparently been dropped in favour of a more user-friendly set-up, in line with traditional GT3 thinking.
Meanwhile, work continues apace on the forthcoming GT2 RS, which "should be ready by the end of the year", our source said.
Initially Porsche engineers were looking for a massive power gain, even compared with the 612bhp of the original 2010 GT2 RS, but a plan to realise 700bhp was sidelined when it became clear the engine would need a water injection system to keep internal temperatures under control.
Instead, engineers are believed to have settled on an output of around 650bhp, almost 90bhp more than the engine produces in the current 911 Turbo S. That would provide for a specific output of more than 170bhp per litre.
Another source confirmed that this would be the last outing for the engine, which is based on previous-generation technology, and that the next Turbo would be based on the new flat sixes seen in the current 911 Carrera, S and GTS, but with an enlarged capacity.
After the GT2 RS, the next GT model will be a Cayman GT4 RS, complete with a 4.0-litre engine. So fast is the current four-cylinder Cayman S that Porsche officials privately concede that, if shod with an equivalent tyre, it would be as quick around the Nürburgring as the existing Cayman GT4, so a big performance leap is expected.
Clearly it won’t have the full 500bhp-plus provided to the new GT3, but expect an output of at least 430bhp, a clear 50bhp rise over the Cayman GT4 and more than enough to establish a clear performance margin to lesser, non-GT Cayman models.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...lat-six-engine
2017 Porsche 911 GT3 to get 4.0-litre flat six engine
Set to be revealed at the Geneva show in March, the 2017 911 GT3 will get a power increase to more than 500bhp, up from the 475bhp of its predecessor
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Current generation Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Andrew Frankel Autocar
by Andrew Frankel
18 January 2017
The new Porsche 911 GT3 that's due to be launched at the Geneva motor show in March will have a 4.0-litre flat six engine, according to a well-informed source close to the factory. It will not be the same 4.0-litre engine that's found in the current GT3 RS and 911 R, but an evolution capable of producing "at least" the same 500bhp and up from the 475bhp of the last ‘standard’ GT3.
The main focus of the development work has been to improve further the durability of the engine, resulting in a motor that "has done thousands of kilometres, absolutely flat out, with no problems at all".
As already speculated, the 991-generation GT3 will be available for the first time with a choice of a six-speed manual gearbox or a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic transmission. A plan to stiffen the suspension and make a much more hardcore product has apparently been dropped in favour of a more user-friendly set-up, in line with traditional GT3 thinking.
Meanwhile, work continues apace on the forthcoming GT2 RS, which "should be ready by the end of the year", our source said.
Initially Porsche engineers were looking for a massive power gain, even compared with the 612bhp of the original 2010 GT2 RS, but a plan to realise 700bhp was sidelined when it became clear the engine would need a water injection system to keep internal temperatures under control.
Instead, engineers are believed to have settled on an output of around 650bhp, almost 90bhp more than the engine produces in the current 911 Turbo S. That would provide for a specific output of more than 170bhp per litre.
Another source confirmed that this would be the last outing for the engine, which is based on previous-generation technology, and that the next Turbo would be based on the new flat sixes seen in the current 911 Carrera, S and GTS, but with an enlarged capacity.
After the GT2 RS, the next GT model will be a Cayman GT4 RS, complete with a 4.0-litre engine. So fast is the current four-cylinder Cayman S that Porsche officials privately concede that, if shod with an equivalent tyre, it would be as quick around the Nürburgring as the existing Cayman GT4, so a big performance leap is expected.
Clearly it won’t have the full 500bhp-plus provided to the new GT3, but expect an output of at least 430bhp, a clear 50bhp rise over the Cayman GT4 and more than enough to establish a clear performance margin to lesser, non-GT Cayman models.
01-18-2017, 02:38 PM
#700
Originally Posted by FLT6SPD
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...lat-six-engine
2017 Porsche 911 GT3 to get 4.0-litre flat six engine
Set to be revealed at the Geneva show in March, the 2017 911 GT3 will get a power increase to more than 500bhp, up from the 475bhp of its predecessor
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Current generation Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Andrew Frankel Autocar
by Andrew Frankel
18 January 2017
The new Porsche 911 GT3 that's due to be launched at the Geneva motor show in March will have a 4.0-litre flat six engine, according to a well-informed source close to the factory. It will not be the same 4.0-litre engine that's found in the current GT3 RS and 911 R, but an evolution capable of producing "at least" the same 500bhp and up from the 475bhp of the last ‘standard’ GT3.
The main focus of the development work has been to improve further the durability of the engine, resulting in a motor that "has done thousands of kilometres, absolutely flat out, with no problems at all".
As already speculated, the 991-generation GT3 will be available for the first time with a choice of a six-speed manual gearbox or a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic transmission. A plan to stiffen the suspension and make a much more hardcore product has apparently been dropped in favour of a more user-friendly set-up, in line with traditional GT3 thinking.
Meanwhile, work continues apace on the forthcoming GT2 RS, which "should be ready by the end of the year", our source said.
Initially Porsche engineers were looking for a massive power gain, even compared with the 612bhp of the original 2010 GT2 RS, but a plan to realise 700bhp was sidelined when it became clear the engine would need a water injection system to keep internal temperatures under control.
Instead, engineers are believed to have settled on an output of around 650bhp, almost 90bhp more than the engine produces in the current 911 Turbo S. That would provide for a specific output of more than 170bhp per litre.
Another source confirmed that this would be the last outing for the engine, which is based on previous-generation technology, and that the next Turbo would be based on the new flat sixes seen in the current 911 Carrera, S and GTS, but with an enlarged capacity.
After the GT2 RS, the next GT model will be a Cayman GT4 RS, complete with a 4.0-litre engine. So fast is the current four-cylinder Cayman S that Porsche officials privately concede that, if shod with an equivalent tyre, it would be as quick around the Nürburgring as the existing Cayman GT4, so a big performance leap is expected.
Clearly it won’t have the full 500bhp-plus provided to the new GT3, but expect an output of at least 430bhp, a clear 50bhp rise over the Cayman GT4 and more than enough to establish a clear performance margin to lesser, non-GT Cayman models.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...lat-six-engine
2017 Porsche 911 GT3 to get 4.0-litre flat six engine
Set to be revealed at the Geneva show in March, the 2017 911 GT3 will get a power increase to more than 500bhp, up from the 475bhp of its predecessor
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Current generation Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Andrew Frankel Autocar
by Andrew Frankel
18 January 2017
The new Porsche 911 GT3 that's due to be launched at the Geneva motor show in March will have a 4.0-litre flat six engine, according to a well-informed source close to the factory. It will not be the same 4.0-litre engine that's found in the current GT3 RS and 911 R, but an evolution capable of producing "at least" the same 500bhp and up from the 475bhp of the last ‘standard’ GT3.
The main focus of the development work has been to improve further the durability of the engine, resulting in a motor that "has done thousands of kilometres, absolutely flat out, with no problems at all".
As already speculated, the 991-generation GT3 will be available for the first time with a choice of a six-speed manual gearbox or a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch automatic transmission. A plan to stiffen the suspension and make a much more hardcore product has apparently been dropped in favour of a more user-friendly set-up, in line with traditional GT3 thinking.
Meanwhile, work continues apace on the forthcoming GT2 RS, which "should be ready by the end of the year", our source said.
Initially Porsche engineers were looking for a massive power gain, even compared with the 612bhp of the original 2010 GT2 RS, but a plan to realise 700bhp was sidelined when it became clear the engine would need a water injection system to keep internal temperatures under control.
Instead, engineers are believed to have settled on an output of around 650bhp, almost 90bhp more than the engine produces in the current 911 Turbo S. That would provide for a specific output of more than 170bhp per litre.
Another source confirmed that this would be the last outing for the engine, which is based on previous-generation technology, and that the next Turbo would be based on the new flat sixes seen in the current 911 Carrera, S and GTS, but with an enlarged capacity.
After the GT2 RS, the next GT model will be a Cayman GT4 RS, complete with a 4.0-litre engine. So fast is the current four-cylinder Cayman S that Porsche officials privately concede that, if shod with an equivalent tyre, it would be as quick around the Nürburgring as the existing Cayman GT4, so a big performance leap is expected.
Clearly it won’t have the full 500bhp-plus provided to the new GT3, but expect an output of at least 430bhp, a clear 50bhp rise over the Cayman GT4 and more than enough to establish a clear performance margin to lesser, non-GT Cayman models.
01-18-2017, 02:50 PM
#701
Rennlist Member
I'm not quite sure why some believe the GT3 won't have more power than the 911R and GT3 RS. Of course it will, that's always been the case through every redesign and facelift in the past, no exceptions. HP will be in the 500-510HP range as indicated in the article.
25-35HP bump is what to expect for the 991.2 GT3 models across the board. The turbos in the lower models have closed the gap significantly. The standard 20HP bump won't suffice this time around.
A Carrera GTS's Nurburgring lap time is 7:26 on stock PSS, with PSC2 it's in the 7:18-7:20 range. The GTS is faster than a GT3 RS when tires are equal. That's ridiculous and the GT division knows it. Expect a higher than usual HP bump and a more aggressive suspension as well. You heard it here first.
My cleaning lady cleans the hardest.
25-35HP bump is what to expect for the 991.2 GT3 models across the board. The turbos in the lower models have closed the gap significantly. The standard 20HP bump won't suffice this time around.
A Carrera GTS's Nurburgring lap time is 7:26 on stock PSS, with PSC2 it's in the 7:18-7:20 range. The GTS is faster than a GT3 RS when tires are equal. That's ridiculous and the GT division knows it. Expect a higher than usual HP bump and a more aggressive suspension as well. You heard it here first.
My cleaning lady cleans the hardest.
Last edited by bigmacsmallfries; 01-18-2017 at 03:20 PM.
01-18-2017, 03:03 PM
#702
^^ Agree. Don't even need a cleaning lady to know the 991.2 GT3 will have >500 hp and >339 lb/ft. It just makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if it made 515 hp and 365 lb/ft. It will also come with better tires, revised suspension and RWS and more downforce... nurburgring ~7:15 
01-18-2017, 03:05 PM
#703
+1 for 7.15
01-18-2017, 03:06 PM
#704
Rennlist Member
01-18-2017, 03:13 PM
#705
Rennlist Member
^^ Agree. Don't even need a cleaning lady to know the 991.2 GT3 will have >500 hp and >339 lb/ft. It just makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if it made 515 hp and 365 lb/ft. It will also come with better tires, revised suspension and RWS and more downforce... nurburgring ~7:15
Furthermore, expect the GT2 RS to be 7:00 or less, but more than the 6:57 of the 918 Spyder.