Originally Posted by Macca

I found it disappointing EVO just regurgitated the news feed. I expect it of others but not them. Since they lost their best journos last few months my subscription is in jeopardy. Sad to say as I have every copy since inception in 1998!

There are a number of points in this communication I strongly question:

Manual? - yip ok nothing new

4.0L? - yip ok nothing new

9000 rpm? - Nah really? With a longer stroke thats some serious piston speeds. Would they really do that after backing off the 4.0R and 4.0RS engine speeds and making the 911 GT3R race car 8600? No. I dont believe this.

Improved valve train lubrication? - Yes of course if you compare to last GT3 engine of 2013 E series mark 1 MA175. Alot has changed with these engines since then enough for the marketing department to claim along with increased displacement "massively revised" but not really when you look at the last G engines for MA175 and MA176 (RS).

Cayman 4.0L GT4 RS? - Come on. The thing that keeps the Cayman price low is the production spec Carrera 3.8L engine. The only 4.0L NA engine in production is the motorsports derived MA176. So we really think they will use a detuned version of that engine in a Cayman GT4? Surely it would kill the price let alone the cooling issues with packaging. I call total BS on this. They will more likely use a 3.8L with X55 power upgrade kit IMO.

One thing Porsche will never do is bastardize their flagship GT product for a lesser model on performance parameters even if its all for marketing sake only IMO...

Originally Posted by CAlexio

I'm actually in South Africa in Capetown right by Killarney race track right now doing an f3 school, and it's plastered with GTS posters here. Gonna hang around tomorrow to see if I can scoop some news..

This place is gorgeous and dirt cheap at the moment.. I highly recommend a vacation here.

Originally Posted by bigmacsmallfries

The last GT4 got the 3.8L Carrera S engine from the 991.1. 400hp translates to 385hp because they rate the engines at 2-3% less than what's true for the GT cars. The next GT4 is receiving the 3.8L from the 991.1 GTS which was rated at 430hp. Again, accounting for the 2-3% in stated HP compared to standard 911s, the next GT4 will have 415hp. The 991.2 GT3 is going to have 505HP but that is not set in stone. Porsche is aiming for a 30hp increase for the facelift but this will ultimately vary 25-35hp for both models. 510PS will translate to 503HP to be precise. Said it here first.

Originally Posted by Ferrarisimo

I agree that the bolded statement above makes the most sense, but where is Porsche getting this engine from? Like all car companies, they run a just-in-time production model, which means they won't have thousands of 3.8 9A1s from any of the naturally-aspired 991.1 cars, including the GTS (nor the GT4), just lying around 20 months from now when the new GT4s start rolling off the line. And they probably can't spin up the manufacturing for those engines given that it will have been a close to 20-month gap from the last NA 9A1 they made (coincidentally, for the 981 GT4) to the time they have to start production on the 982 GT4.

If Porsche is adding a naturally aspirated engine into the 982 GT4, then the only one they'll have available to manufacture will be the 4.0 for the 991.2 GT3 (who knows if they'll make a 991.2 GT3 RS). They can detune the hell out of it so that the GT4 performance falls in line below the 991.2 GT3 (and maybe the 991.1 GT3), but above the 718 GTS, which will likely be ferociously fast given how quick the 718 S currently is.

Anything can happen in the next 18-20 months, but I'm kinda buying the rumor...

Originally Posted by Bardman

For the record, it looks like I was wrong!

It does make me curious though. Why would Porsche Australia have the wrong information? Deliberate misinformation or was there actually a change from the 3.8 to the 4.0?

Originally Posted by bigmacsmallfries

By law, all auto manufactures are required to have parts available for up to 15 years after production ends in a variety of countries. Porsche can build you a 991.1 3.8L GTS engine 15 years from now. If all the engines in the next GT4 had a high failure rate and 1000 of them needed to be replaced 15 years from now, Porsche by law would be required to supply you with an engine. If they weren't willing to a class action lawsuit would then be commenced and readily won by the consumer. There's no problem starting up the line and building a few thousand motors as the systems are already in place.

Originally Posted by Bardman

Its the same argument, they would still be extending this 15 year deadline by another few years on a discontinued engine just to build the GT4. I dont see that happening.

Dont understand why people think a detuned 4.0 is not an option for the GT4?

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Dealers don't often get the best information, or they just don't pay attention to what's being told period. Who can blame them, they only see money coming in and Porsche wine and dine them for dealer meetings like they are royalties, even better treatment than we get with 918 owners events. A couple of them do attend 918 owners events and first thing they said was they had something much better with dealer meetings. Go figure.

When HQ personal was asked something they do not know the answer yet, instead of showing ignorance, they might surf the web to see if they can find something, and Rennlist is probably one of the top site they go to look for information.

Some rumours seem plausible, like doing 3.8 instead of 4.0 to 'protect' R buyers. Sounds reasonable enough to be an excuse. Or keeping the GT3 at 3.8 to leave room for a rumoured 4.0 GT3RS.

Originally Posted by bigmacsmallfries

No they're not, emissions standards and MPG standards don't allow that --fines will be too high as the years go on and progress through the '20s. The next chassis won't necessary be able to have the 991.1 engines placed as the packaging will be different. Be grateful they kept a naturally aspirated engine for us in the GT cars one more time.

Originally Posted by Bardman

I dont think you understand what I was saying. If they take the old engine and put it into the GT4 and sell the GT4 in the US, by what you are saying they will need to extend the 15 year deadline to keep parts / manufacturing capability for this old engine available to cover for the delivery of these new GT4's.

Why would they do this if they can just use a current engine like the 4.0?

Originally Posted by Bardman

I get that, but I know this dealer principle quite well. He is a genuine guy with no BS. When he told me that Porsche Australia had communicated to Australian dealers that it would be a 3.8, I absolutely believe that that is what he was told.

Originally Posted by bigmacsmallfries

Again, it's too expensive to place the new RSR motor in this application. The GT3 needs to stand out as the superior product with a cost that reflects that. If you're thinking that it will save Porsche money manufacturing the 4.0L RSR motor and placing it in the GT4, the answer is no it won't.

Originally Posted by bigmacsmallfries

Again, it's too expensive to place the new RSR motor in this application. The GT3 needs to stand out as the superior product with a cost that reflects that. If you're thinking that it will save Porsche money manufacturing the 4.0L RSR motor and placing it in the GT4, the answer is no it won't.

Originally Posted by Bardman

I counter your "no it won't" argument with an equally convincing position - "yes it will".

Originally Posted by Ferrarisimo

Can you explain that statement for me? If Porsche is looking to reduce development cost of the 4.0 engine through amortization, why wouldn't they put it in as many applications as possible?

If they're looking to keep costs down, limiting it to one car is counter to that.