991.2 GTS, GT3, GT2, GT3 RS, Mission E - Update
01-02-2017, 11:16 AM
#166
A big part of the Porsche price hype we are seeing at the moment is due to the PDK only 991gt3/RS.
If only one sports car I would always go for a MT. Nothing wrong with adding an automatic and mix it up a little.
If only one sports car I would always go for a MT. Nothing wrong with adding an automatic and mix it up a little.
01-02-2017, 11:33 AM
#167
Rennlist Member
Offering a pdk only GT3 was one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Porsche in years. Only their marketing department was " satisfied " with the outcome,people that count knew it was a mistake and it will come back to haunt them.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
And don't overlook the fact that it is mainly the USA buyers who are manual romantics. In Europe, it's a much stronger bias towards PDK
01-02-2017, 11:43 AM
#168
Nordschleife Master
Offering a pdk only GT3 was one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Porsche in years. Only their marketing department aka " bean counters " was " satisfied " with the outcome,people that count knew it was a mistake and it will come back to haunt them.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
01-02-2017, 11:47 AM
#169
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Chris3963
I don't quite get the argument that offering a PDK only GT3 was a mistake. They sold everyone didn't they...and could have sold many more. It certainly did not impact RS sales.
And don't overlook the fact that it is mainly the USA buyers who are manual romantics. In Europe, it's a much stronger bias towards PDK
And don't overlook the fact that it is mainly the USA buyers who are manual romantics. In Europe, it's a much stronger bias towards PDK
The USA vs Europe in terms of manual nostalgia is just a fairy tale...the fact that 80 year old grandmas drive manual Polos in Europe since birth does not translate in less demand for a manual sports car.
01-02-2017, 11:49 AM
#170
991.2 GT3 manual take rate will be higher than it would be otherwise because of no manual trans in 991.1 generation. Just a matter of pent up demand. Plain and simple.
Many GT3 buyers are surely repeat customer. The .2 GT3, while certainly upgraded in many respects (even more power, new electronics, styling tweaks), wouldn't be different enough from .1 GT3 for many .1 GT3 owners to upgrade if not for getting a manual this time around.
PDK-S in .1 GT3 is terrific, to be sure. But a manual in a .2 GT3 is about variety as well as scratching the itch for .1 GT3 owners for whom the GT4 was insufficient by comparison (for its lack of engine excitement like GT3 has) and for whom a 911 R was unobtabium. As a .1 GT3 owner and a (now-former) GT4 owner with a slot for a .2 GT3, that's certainly how I feel about it.
Many GT3 buyers are surely repeat customer. The .2 GT3, while certainly upgraded in many respects (even more power, new electronics, styling tweaks), wouldn't be different enough from .1 GT3 for many .1 GT3 owners to upgrade if not for getting a manual this time around.
PDK-S in .1 GT3 is terrific, to be sure. But a manual in a .2 GT3 is about variety as well as scratching the itch for .1 GT3 owners for whom the GT4 was insufficient by comparison (for its lack of engine excitement like GT3 has) and for whom a 911 R was unobtabium. As a .1 GT3 owner and a (now-former) GT4 owner with a slot for a .2 GT3, that's certainly how I feel about it.
01-02-2017, 11:52 AM
#171
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by bronson7
Nick, I get what you're saying but I respectfully disagree. Realizing North America, primarily USA is Porsches' biggest and I believe most important market but I think if you look elsewhere (ROW), you'll see MT is not as big of a deal compared to the current PDK S. How else would Porsche have introduced it to us if there was the MT option, specifically on GT cars? I think they did a great job and hopefully for all the MT purist, there'll be that option moving forward, atleast for the near future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
01-02-2017, 11:53 AM
#172
Lots of Gt4 owners will def jump on GT3.2 manual as they've been underwhelmed by non-GT motor. I know of at least three.
01-02-2017, 11:55 AM
#173
The manual vs PDK debate will go on after we are dead.
From a money stand-point, Porsche hit it out of park with offering a PDK only GT car. They had a license to print money. All the track-rats and new money/youtube money people who can't drive a stick were drooling at the mouth. Then offer the GT4 and R for that 1% of people that were pissed off at them for offering a PDK only car. Boom. More money.
From the "heart" stand-point, they failed miserably. I am in this small group. I was annoyed how they can offer a PDK only GT car. Left a sour taste in my mouth and lost interest in the .1 GT3 and purchased a GTS instead; couldn't be happier.
Now offer a .2 GT3 in a manual; and holy $hit....people go crazy and buy two. Driving demand even more. More money. VAG has the cash to pay-out their diesel fall-out.
From a money stand-point, Porsche hit it out of park with offering a PDK only GT car. They had a license to print money. All the track-rats and new money/youtube money people who can't drive a stick were drooling at the mouth. Then offer the GT4 and R for that 1% of people that were pissed off at them for offering a PDK only car. Boom. More money.
From the "heart" stand-point, they failed miserably. I am in this small group. I was annoyed how they can offer a PDK only GT car. Left a sour taste in my mouth and lost interest in the .1 GT3 and purchased a GTS instead; couldn't be happier.
Now offer a .2 GT3 in a manual; and holy $hit....people go crazy and buy two. Driving demand even more. More money. VAG has the cash to pay-out their diesel fall-out.
01-02-2017, 12:50 PM
#175
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IMO, it comes down to the intended use of the car.
I view the 991 GT3 and RS as too fast and capable to be properly enjoyed on the vast majority of roads, so they're best used as DE track cars which don't need to be trailered, and PDK is the right transmission for them.
The GT4 and 911R are tuned more for the road, while also being usable for some DE track days, so manual makes sense for them.
So I think Porsche got it right with the transmissions, and the remaining question is whether Porsche should also offer the "wrong" transmission with these cars because people are clamoring for it. Unless it's financially prohibitive, I don't see a compelling reason not to, but I'm among those who are glad to have been "forced" to get PDK in the GT3; if manual was offered, I would still definitely go with PDK, given that it's mainly a track car for me (and I've done lots of track days in manual Porsches, and still have three manual Porsches).
I view the 991 GT3 and RS as too fast and capable to be properly enjoyed on the vast majority of roads, so they're best used as DE track cars which don't need to be trailered, and PDK is the right transmission for them.
The GT4 and 911R are tuned more for the road, while also being usable for some DE track days, so manual makes sense for them.
So I think Porsche got it right with the transmissions, and the remaining question is whether Porsche should also offer the "wrong" transmission with these cars because people are clamoring for it. Unless it's financially prohibitive, I don't see a compelling reason not to, but I'm among those who are glad to have been "forced" to get PDK in the GT3; if manual was offered, I would still definitely go with PDK, given that it's mainly a track car for me (and I've done lots of track days in manual Porsches, and still have three manual Porsches).
01-02-2017, 12:51 PM
#176
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There will be a GT3 manual, period.
PDK will be offered.
Yes PDK is faster around every circuit but GT4+Spyder+R showed, that people still want three pedals.
The engineers are thrilled
PDK will be offered.
Yes PDK is faster around every circuit but GT4+Spyder+R showed, that people still want three pedals.
The engineers are thrilled
01-02-2017, 01:10 PM
#177
IMO, it comes down to the intended use of the car.
I view the 991 GT3 and RS as too fast and capable to be properly enjoyed on the vast majority of roads, so they're best used as DE track cars which don't need to be trailered, and PDK is the right transmission for them.
The GT4 and 911R are tuned more for the road, while also being usable for some DE track days, so manual makes sense for them.
So I think Porsche got it right with the transmissions, and the remaining question is whether Porsche should also offer the "wrong" transmission with these cars because people are clamoring for it. Unless it's financially prohibitive, I don't see a compelling reason not to, but I'm among those who are glad to have been "forced" to get PDK in the GT3; if manual was offered, I would still definitely go with PDK, given that it's mainly a track car for me (and I've done lots of track days in manual Porsches, and still have three manual Porsches).
I view the 991 GT3 and RS as too fast and capable to be properly enjoyed on the vast majority of roads, so they're best used as DE track cars which don't need to be trailered, and PDK is the right transmission for them.
The GT4 and 911R are tuned more for the road, while also being usable for some DE track days, so manual makes sense for them.
So I think Porsche got it right with the transmissions, and the remaining question is whether Porsche should also offer the "wrong" transmission with these cars because people are clamoring for it. Unless it's financially prohibitive, I don't see a compelling reason not to, but I'm among those who are glad to have been "forced" to get PDK in the GT3; if manual was offered, I would still definitely go with PDK, given that it's mainly a track car for me (and I've done lots of track days in manual Porsches, and still have three manual Porsches).
01-02-2017, 02:05 PM
#178
Offering a pdk only GT3 was one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Porsche in years. Only their marketing department aka " bean counters " was " satisfied " with the outcome,people that count knew it was a mistake and it will come back to haunt them.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
I can see how a softer version with less Bhp, damping, very little % rws like on our Rs, along with not having a full e lsd..etc would work......But MT on a car with a GT3 badge on the back, don't see it........
01-02-2017, 02:17 PM
#179
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Apolo1
With respect, I disagree.....Giving a GT3 a MT will just put the GT3 brand back a generation. Ie slower lap time than the Gen 1 PDK-S version. This Gen 2 is an evolution not a step back.
I can see how a softer version with less Bhp, damping, very little % rws like on our Rs, along with not having a full e lsd..etc would work......But MT on a car with a GT3 badge on the back, don't see it........
I can see how a softer version with less Bhp, damping, very little % rws like on our Rs, along with not having a full e lsd..etc would work......But MT on a car with a GT3 badge on the back, don't see it........
01-02-2017, 02:46 PM
#180
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Offering a pdk only GT3 was one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Porsche in years. Only their marketing department aka " bean counters " was " satisfied " with the outcome,people that count knew it was a mistake and it will come back to haunt them.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
The GT4,911R are living proof of that mistake. Add internal debate,feedback from important customers,from auto journalists that " sell " cars and the marketing department was left " with their hands in the air ". Demand for a manual GT car is stronger than ever! Why? Look around you : there's nothing left.
Wow I didn't realize they made such a big mistake that they had to discount them all to sell them!? Hardly a mistake at all but would we like a manual option offered? Some yes and some no, but please remember they would have sold every GT4 still if PDK only offered, price drove some of demand despite what some say. The GT4 did prove that manuals can sell and still have a place in GT cars.