991.2 is 3.8 and RS.2???
11-30-2016 | 01:29 PM
#211
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,967
Likes: 1,279
From: Vancouver, BC
Whoopsy - deserves a lot of credit talked about the 918 on Mclaren Life and stuck by Porsche but this secret group and we know more but can't tell is in my opinion JV league and exactly why Mclaren was able to steal Ferrari customers Mclaren is doing it again with 570 targeted right at the 911.
Right now in Porsche's eyes the 918 owners are in a different level. They don't just buy one car, after the 918 most of them have bought 4-8 cars more within the 2 years and many more to come with the North America VIP program. They do treat us differently that way. The group has just about 10% of the world's 918 owners and Porsche do listen to us, at times.
But I don't blindly praises Porsche. I see things as they are and talked about them, be it good or bad, as you can see from my big thread on 918, sometimes it's not all rosy and I am not afraid to show the dirty laundry.
I had bought one of the initial 2012 MP4-12C and was praising it too in public. Lovely car. McLaren ruins it by sugarcoating facelifts as new models. I saw through the deception but was hanged in public, especially after I took veil off the secret of the P1. I am not going to buy into any company's PR speak just because, I will investigate myself on the claims.
The 570/540 is a nice entry, finally they move past the ugly face. But the real treat should be the P14 when they finally move on from just simply facelifts off the 12C platform.
I loved my Ferraris too for that matter, but it's pain in the *** to deal with Ferrari dealers.
I just bought my first Lambo not too long ago, it was a pleasure to do business with the dealer and basically on the same level as my McLaren dealer.
Dealer attitude is why McLaren, Lamborghini can steal Ferrari's customers, it's not the factory.
11-30-2016 | 01:38 PM
#212
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 127
From: midwest
I agree these cars are so close performance wise it really makes not one wit of difference for DE's and C&C.
Porsche clearly wants the "big reveal" in March with the new .2GT3 so I get all the tight lipped stuff.
In the end the RS is likely to hold its value much better than the Mac and likely the 488 if history is any barometer.
Porsche clearly wants the "big reveal" in March with the new .2GT3 so I get all the tight lipped stuff.
In the end the RS is likely to hold its value much better than the Mac and likely the 488 if history is any barometer.
RS and special track focus edition will always do better but at what price. Forcing customers to buy Pan Am's porky models wait a year plus and so on.
Porsche Ferrari Mclaren play these games customers find a different brand good luck getting loyal customers back at the factory level.
100% understand when it's a cup racer challenge driver guys that are out there representing by racing or long term relationships.
My gripe is when Ford Ferrari Mclaren Porsche removes the local dealer out and allows guys who feather dust and flip their cars to pad their wallets in effect hurting the loyal Porsche buyer who doesn't engage in the games due to time or interest that's the whole premise of a local customer dealer relationship.
11-30-2016 | 01:44 PM
#213
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,967
Likes: 1,279
From: Vancouver, BC
For those that are interested, the GT2RS should be announced around summer time.
Don't expect Porsche to continue the HP war forever. They are more focused on efficiency. In plain english, that means they wants to lower the weight instead of adding more and more HP, making each gallon of fuel perform better.
Fuel economy target dictates that turbo engines will have an advantage in government testing, but with Trump there is hope that he will relax the EPA target and hence lessen the need to migrate to turbos.
Hybrids, in Porsche eyes, is a great equalizer. They used the system differently than Toyota. Instead of going all out with fuel economy, Porsche had always view hybrid systems as a performance enhancer, it adds performance while at the same time lower emission during say traffic situation. Yes hybrids adds weight back, which is why Porsche is exploring ways to take weight off elsewhere to offset.
The incoming Panamera Turbo S, which should debut sometime in the fall, will be such a car. Factory testers called it a monster.
Don't expect Porsche to continue the HP war forever. They are more focused on efficiency. In plain english, that means they wants to lower the weight instead of adding more and more HP, making each gallon of fuel perform better.
Fuel economy target dictates that turbo engines will have an advantage in government testing, but with Trump there is hope that he will relax the EPA target and hence lessen the need to migrate to turbos.
Hybrids, in Porsche eyes, is a great equalizer. They used the system differently than Toyota. Instead of going all out with fuel economy, Porsche had always view hybrid systems as a performance enhancer, it adds performance while at the same time lower emission during say traffic situation. Yes hybrids adds weight back, which is why Porsche is exploring ways to take weight off elsewhere to offset.
The incoming Panamera Turbo S, which should debut sometime in the fall, will be such a car. Factory testers called it a monster.
11-30-2016 | 01:58 PM
#214
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 127
From: midwest
Right now in Porsche's eyes the 918 owners are in a different level. They don't just buy one car, after the 918 most of them have bought 4-8 cars more within the 2 years and many more to come with the North America VIP program. They do treat us differently that way. The group has just about 10% of the world's 918 owners and Porsche do listen to us, at times.
But I don't blindly praises Porsche. I see things as they are and talked about them, be it good or bad, as you can see from my big thread on 918, sometimes it's not all rosy and I am not afraid to show the dirty laundry.
I had bought one of the initial 2012 MP4-12C and was praising it too in public. Lovely car. McLaren ruins it by sugarcoating facelifts as new models. I saw through the deception but was hanged in public, especially after I took veil off the secret of the P1. I am not going to buy into any company's PR speak just because, I will investigate myself on the claims.
The 570/540 is a nice entry, finally they move past the ugly face. But the real treat should be the P14 when they finally move on from just simply facelifts off the 12C platform.
I loved my Ferraris too for that matter, but it's pain in the *** to deal with Ferrari dealers.
I just bought my first Lambo not too long ago, it was a pleasure to do business with the dealer and basically on the same level as my McLaren dealer.
Dealer attitude is why McLaren, Lamborghini can steal Ferrari's customers, it's not the factory.
But I don't blindly praises Porsche. I see things as they are and talked about them, be it good or bad, as you can see from my big thread on 918, sometimes it's not all rosy and I am not afraid to show the dirty laundry.
I had bought one of the initial 2012 MP4-12C and was praising it too in public. Lovely car. McLaren ruins it by sugarcoating facelifts as new models. I saw through the deception but was hanged in public, especially after I took veil off the secret of the P1. I am not going to buy into any company's PR speak just because, I will investigate myself on the claims.
The 570/540 is a nice entry, finally they move past the ugly face. But the real treat should be the P14 when they finally move on from just simply facelifts off the 12C platform.
I loved my Ferraris too for that matter, but it's pain in the *** to deal with Ferrari dealers.
I just bought my first Lambo not too long ago, it was a pleasure to do business with the dealer and basically on the same level as my McLaren dealer.
Dealer attitude is why McLaren, Lamborghini can steal Ferrari's customers, it's not the factory.
Many have them sitting and or flipping scheming which is why Ford took their approach.
Being the local Ferrari Club President agree the dealers are silly but FNA sets the tone so it's of no surprise.
Mclaren had me - loved the car but when I wanted to sell the dealer wouldn't take my car back at an price. Listed it on e-bay sold in 2 days then the dealer calls and asks why so cheap ... needless to say any thoughts of a P1 were done. Mclaren with their take it to the dealers for inspection bfore and after track day killed them as the closest dealer 300 miles away.
Best thing about Porsche - it's local and support track days hoping to get down to Atlanta.
Just ordered a Viper - it's 100k less money than anything close downside there is no track warranty but knowing all going in vs guessing justified the purchase.
As you stated your group has 100 or so ... the rest are of little to no value yet all benefited at the cost of their loyal customers again IMO Ford took the better long term approach.
11-30-2016 | 02:48 PM
#217
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 47
From: Midwest
Originally Posted by Birel22
If only there were more 918 owners such as yourself here stateside.... It often seems the majority here are not "car guys." With that said, the adopters deployed the capital and took the risk. They are entitled to the incentives they signed up for, including the trunk money in the special editions and first right of refusal. Porsche does seem more inclined to pacify demand so going forward hopefully the impact will not be as severe to the common GT enthusiast.
11-30-2016 | 02:58 PM
#218
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,487
Likes: 133
From: Europe
Originally Posted by Whoopsy
For those that are interested, the GT2RS should be announced around summer time.
Don't expect Porsche to continue the HP war forever. They are more focused on efficiency. In plain english, that means they wants to lower the weight instead of adding more and more HP, making each gallon of fuel perform better.
Fuel economy target dictates that turbo engines will have an advantage in government testing, but with Trump there is hope that he will relax the EPA target and hence lessen the need to migrate to turbos.
Hybrids, in Porsche eyes, is a great equalizer. They used the system differently than Toyota. Instead of going all out with fuel economy, Porsche had always view hybrid systems as a performance enhancer, it adds performance while at the same time lower emission during say traffic situation. Yes hybrids adds weight back, which is why Porsche is exploring ways to take weight off elsewhere to offset.
The incoming Panamera Turbo S, which should debut sometime in the fall, will be such a car. Factory testers called it a monster.
Don't expect Porsche to continue the HP war forever. They are more focused on efficiency. In plain english, that means they wants to lower the weight instead of adding more and more HP, making each gallon of fuel perform better.
Fuel economy target dictates that turbo engines will have an advantage in government testing, but with Trump there is hope that he will relax the EPA target and hence lessen the need to migrate to turbos.
Hybrids, in Porsche eyes, is a great equalizer. They used the system differently than Toyota. Instead of going all out with fuel economy, Porsche had always view hybrid systems as a performance enhancer, it adds performance while at the same time lower emission during say traffic situation. Yes hybrids adds weight back, which is why Porsche is exploring ways to take weight off elsewhere to offset.
The incoming Panamera Turbo S, which should debut sometime in the fall, will be such a car. Factory testers called it a monster.
We have already started to see hybrids with E range almost long enough for most people's DD.
This is only the start.
As some of you know Ford/BMW/Mercedes and some others just agreed on a unified charge system.
As much as I love the old fashion cars I'm really curious about the next chapter in auto industry.
If the Panamera turbo has a range of 100km or more on pure electric I will buy one.
11-30-2016 | 03:19 PM
#220
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,487
Likes: 133
From: Europe
Originally Posted by Waxer
So will the GT2RS be another 918 owner offering or will others be able to buy one?
991.2rs will most likely be a limited edition send off.
It would be a squeeze to get a full production 991.2gt3/ 991.2rs/ 991gt2rs and limited car in before 992?
11-30-2016 | 04:20 PM
#221
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 509
From: Germany/Austria
first thank you whoopsy! 
Why the 991.1GT3RS had such a waiting list? Because of good economy, zero interest (credit and depit), cars as investment, 997 values. As soon the first guy said i want one but can´t get it - the snowball started to run down the hill.
Porsche doubled the first planed numbers after several weeks. Effect was coming late - based on immense throughput times of different RS specific parts - waiting lists were full.
Now (in whole EU) the snowball is sitting in the valley melting. each day is a RS available for MSRP with a couple of miles.
Lets face the truth that minimum half of the guys which where joining as new buyers on the 991.1GT3RS compared to the 997.RS´s (meaning 1.000 cars (4.000 991.1GT3RS minus 2.000 997.xGT3RS and half of it)) - where just coming based on flipping / price stability reason.
1) Porsche will show up with a not limited GT3 - they will produce all orders. Somebody know if they added a "GT line"? Or if they will produce the 991.2GT3 now with busstops at the regular 911 line?
Q1/17
2) Than they will show up with a (i guess: limited) 991GT2RS. (as whoopsy confirmed)
Q2/17
3) Than hopefully a not limited 991.2GT3RS. 4.0 again just new lights, bumpers and PCM (this i heared first time from two good dealers back in 2015)
but i personally don´t think a 991.2GT3RS will come. If - than Q1/18. or together with GT3 Q1/17
4) After all this - a limited goodby 991GT3RS/Cup/R masterpiece. (i guess)
Q4/18
Start of 992 will be Q1/19 i guess.?
Why the 991.1GT3RS had such a waiting list? Because of good economy, zero interest (credit and depit), cars as investment, 997 values. As soon the first guy said i want one but can´t get it - the snowball started to run down the hill.
Porsche doubled the first planed numbers after several weeks. Effect was coming late - based on immense throughput times of different RS specific parts - waiting lists were full.
Now (in whole EU) the snowball is sitting in the valley melting. each day is a RS available for MSRP with a couple of miles.
Lets face the truth that minimum half of the guys which where joining as new buyers on the 991.1GT3RS compared to the 997.RS´s (meaning 1.000 cars (4.000 991.1GT3RS minus 2.000 997.xGT3RS and half of it)) - where just coming based on flipping / price stability reason.
Q1/17
2) Than they will show up with a (i guess: limited) 991GT2RS. (as whoopsy confirmed)
Q2/17
3) Than hopefully a not limited 991.2GT3RS. 4.0 again just new lights, bumpers and PCM (this i heared first time from two good dealers back in 2015)
but i personally don´t think a 991.2GT3RS will come. If - than Q1/18. or together with GT3 Q1/17
4) After all this - a limited goodby 991GT3RS/Cup/R masterpiece. (i guess)
Q4/18
Start of 992 will be Q1/19 i guess.?
11-30-2016 | 04:36 PM
#222
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 509
From: Germany/Austria
good thing about Hybrid: Are the stupid test-cycles about emission and fuel and the yearly taxs or one time taxe connected with the results of the cycles.
for example in Austria:
991.1GT3RS, 991Turbo, etc. have the highest "luxury/emission tax" called NoVA of 32%. (net + 32% NoVA + 20%VAT = 58,4% tax load)
918 Spyder does have a NoVA of 0% thanks to mastering the cycle of around 50km with e-power.
for example in Austria:
991.1GT3RS, 991Turbo, etc. have the highest "luxury/emission tax" called NoVA of 32%. (net + 32% NoVA + 20%VAT = 58,4% tax load)
918 Spyder does have a NoVA of 0% thanks to mastering the cycle of around 50km with e-power.
Last edited by jo_ker; 11-30-2016 at 05:29 PM.
11-30-2016 | 05:26 PM
#223
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 721
11-30-2016 | 05:34 PM
#224
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 127
From: midwest
The guy from Shark Tank flipped his La Ferrari on fchat don't forget lots of 918 guys bought in at the 6's and plenty of those are on lease.
Someone having more or less money does not equate to the game in fact it gets worse as egos and new money grows - the only variable is the dollar amount.
Ferrari guys have done this for decades - receive and then order when the new one comes in they trade it back at what they paid never spending a dime to drive their cars.
11-30-2016 | 06:13 PM
#225
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 818
From: Central New Jersey
That's just not true.
The guy from Shark Tank flipped his La Ferrari on fchat don't forget lots of 918 guys bought in at the 6's and plenty of those are on lease.
Someone having more or less money does not equate to the game in fact it gets worse as egos and new money grows - the only variable is the dollar amount.
Ferrari guys have done this for decades - receive and then order when the new one comes in they trade it back at what they paid never spending a dime to drive their cars.
The guy from Shark Tank flipped his La Ferrari on fchat don't forget lots of 918 guys bought in at the 6's and plenty of those are on lease.
Someone having more or less money does not equate to the game in fact it gets worse as egos and new money grows - the only variable is the dollar amount.
Ferrari guys have done this for decades - receive and then order when the new one comes in they trade it back at what they paid never spending a dime to drive their cars.