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lowest spec GT3T is 1413 kgs ... R is 1370 ... half the diff is AC and radio delete. Inserting a lithium battery alone evens the weight ... from there the GT3T leaves the R in the history books and car collections as what fool would pay speculator price when they can have a superior road car for 40% of the cost and get to just relax and drive (stop over selling their car on these posts for financial rational) ... just the facts ; )
Porsche quotes the weight for a car with all weight-saving options fitted and all weight-saving delete-options deleted so the quoted weight is the minimum possible factory-built weight.
Implying that some R buyers are fools shows a lack of manners and respect for others opinions and values and has no place on this forum. Which of two great but different cars is superior is entirely subjective. Well argued opinions are welcome but to present unsupported opinions as facts is arrogant and also has no place here.
Porsche quotes the weight for a car with all weight-saving options fitted and all weight-saving delete-options deleted so the quoted weight is the minimum possible factory-built weight.
Implying that some R buyers are fools shows a lack of manners and respect for others opinions and values and has no place on this forum. Which of two great but different cars is superior is entirely subjective. Well argued opinions are welcome but to present unsupported opinions as facts is arrogant and also has no place here.
just the facts ...
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 10-14-2018 at 08:47 AM.
lowest spec GT3T is 1413 kgs ... R is 1370 ... half the diff is AC and radio delete. Inserting a lithium battery alone evens the weight ... from there the GT3T leaves the R in the history books and car collections as what fool would pay speculator price when they can have a superior road car for 40% of the cost and get to just relax and drive (stop over selling their car on these posts for financial rational) ... just the facts ; )
Originally Posted by turbofreeFLAT6
Porsche quotes the weight for a car with all weight-saving options fitted and all weight-saving delete-options deleted so the quoted weight is the minimum possible factory-built weight.
Implying that some R buyers are fools shows a lack of manners and respect for others opinions and values and has no place on this forum. Which of two great but different cars is superior is entirely subjective. Well argued opinions are welcome but to present unsupported opinions as facts is arrogant and also has no place here.
Originally Posted by Brian Himmelman
just the facts ... don’t like it ... too bad
Facts: A lithium battery is not a factory option on the GT3T. To get down to the quoted weight of each car you would have to add the lithium battery and single mass flywheel to the R, and PCCB and bucket seats to the GT3T. The quoted weight is for the fixed wing; is the retractable wing the same weight?
Opinion (yours): The GT3T is 'a superior road car'.
Opinion (some): The option (if you forego AC and PCM on the R) of 43kg lighter weight, single mass flywheel and more playful settings of the suspension and RWS make the R more fun.
Opinion (others): The improved EPAS feedback and 500 rpm higher redline make the GT3T more fun.
Opinion (mine): I don't have one because I haven't driven either car.
Last edited by turbofreeFLAT6; 10-10-2018 at 09:40 AM.
relax and go drive them both. They are similar but R feels more lively to drive. No doubt R is a special car
Nice TDF, it is such a fantastic car. So much more engaging that the 812 which replaces it.. the induction noise, that super grippy front end, the slight roughness while shifting. I realize most of it the emotion is probably "engineered in" to make it feel "racy", and that 812 may be more capable, but that car is so damn boring in comparison, like a videogame. Is "too perfect" a thing?.. like the 918 to drive is "too perfect" (no offense Porschephiles). The way you can swing the TDF out in corners and make it play a little, ahh, so satisfying, makes you feel like a hero even when you're a zero (me). I normally don't like larger sports cars but I'm in love with the TDF. I made a short video of driving it in. Mountain twisties if anyone wants to check it out
Nice TDF, it is such a fantastic car. So much more engaging that the 812 which replaces it.. the induction noise, that super grippy front end, the slight roughness while shifting. I realize most of it the emotion is probably "engineered in" to make it feel "racy", and that 812 may be more capable, but that car is so damn boring in comparison, like a videogame. Is "too perfect" a thing?.. like the 918 to drive is "too perfect" (no offense Porschephiles). The way you can swing the TDF out in corners and make it play a little, ahh, so satisfying, makes you feel like a hero even when you're a zero (me). I normally don't like larger sports cars but I'm in love with the TDF. I made a short video of driving it in. Mountain twisties if anyone wants to check it out
Couldn't see a single inaccuracy in what he said myself.
he failed to address the original point made ... it was not presented that lithium battery was a factory option (not sure what his point is) on the GT3T but rather the entire weight diff to the 911 R when both spec’d with PCM and AC (most are) is only 40 lbs with each at their lowest spec. Should a GT3T owner add “aftermarket” a lithium battery the weight diff is less than 1% of vehicle weight (unnoticeable) road use.
if it is my opinion the GT3T is a superior car with sharper chassis and improved engine “ for what I value in a Porsche”
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 10-14-2018 at 08:46 AM.
Reason: Update
Porsche quotes the weight for a car with all weight-saving options fitted and all weight-saving delete-options deleted so the quoted weight is the minimum possible factory-built weight.
Implying that some R buyers are fools shows a lack of manners and respect for others opinions and values and has no place on this forum. Which of two great but different cars is superior is entirely subjective. Well argued opinions are welcome but to present unsupported opinions as facts is arrogant and also has no place here.
perhaps before go off so self righteous you should go read your arrogant post on another thread bragging 997 as superior vs 991 ... full of subjective rhetoric ... hypocrisy has no place here
if I think car A is $350K vs car B is $140K (95% same car and ethos) is foolish yes that is my opinion ... but to each their own
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 10-14-2018 at 08:22 AM.
Reason: Change
Brian, I think you're a little confused about who is having the meltdown.
This thread is about the 911R and that is what my comments have related to because it is an interesting car and I want to learn about it. I think in saying 'yet same guy bltihers on how much his car 997 is better than 991’s ... his opinion ...' you are referring to another thread, 'GT3.2 - too much for street fun?' where I recently said, 'The problem with the 991 on the road is not too much power but too much grip and less analogue sensory rewards', which is obviously nothing more than my opinion or, as you say, 'intangible and subjective comparisons'. Nevertheless it is relevant to that thread but not this one.
Neither I nor Gravs said anything about the GT3T not having RWS. I said that some say the 'more playful settings of the suspension and RWS make the R more fun', i.e. more playful than the RWS in the GT3T. I also put forward an argument in favour of the GT3T.
Obviously you are a talented driver and have played with the limits of both the R and T on testing drivers roads in order to come to your unequivocal judgement that the T is 'a superior road car'. As I said, I have not driven either car so am keen to hear your comparative driving impressions.
Brian, I think you're a little confused about who is having the meltdown.
This thread is about the 911R and that is what my comments have related to because it is an interesting car and I want to learn about it. I think in saying 'yet same guy bltihers on how much his car 997 is better than 991’s ... his opinion ...' you are referring to another thread, 'GT3.2 - too much for street fun?' where I recently said, 'The problem with the 991 on the road is not too much power but too much grip and less analogue sensory rewards', which is obviously nothing more than my opinion or, as you say, 'intangible and subjective comparisons'. Nevertheless it is relevant to that thread but not this one.
Neither I nor Gravs said anything about the GT3T not having RWS. I said that some say the 'more playful settings of the suspension and RWS make the R more fun', i.e. more playful than the RWS in the GT3T. I also put forward an argument in favour of the GT3T.
Obviously you are a talented driver and have played with the limits of both the R and T on testing drivers roads in order to come to your unequivocal judgement that the T is 'a superior road car'. As I said, I have not driven either car so am keen to hear your comparative driving impressions.
yes, my club friend and I have exchanged cars ... he loves his and I love mine ... same way u love urs
my initial point is that weight is not the true magic between these cars ... limited number (plated) ... yes, old school analogue feel yes though not quite 997 RS 4.0 level ... increase value in future probably yes as well ... but to get behind the wheel on twisty Ocean side roads like he and I do for the pure love of driving ... no there is not $200-$250K difference in these cars was my point and my opinion
you may sarcastically suggest testing roads and using road cars at limits on public roads are the judgement ... I judge based on how I use it on my public roads and track days ... for me yes it is the unequivocal road car as I have no interest in playfulness ... I prefer GT3T sharper improved engine and handing both road and track ... others may want looser, lighter, drifting and retro feel ... to each their own ...
i do not need to write paragraphs of subjective comparisons (other thread) to convince others of my cars virtues versus theirs or say their car is less fun because of subjective opinion after subjective opinion.
talented driver ? Do you mean posting every track event and car I have owned on Rennlist like a resume (not my style) ? I care not whether I build cred or a huge reputation on an online chat
I take it from that question you do consider yourself “a talented driver” ? Impressive
Your comment of “horrific childhood” cheap shot ... that simply lacks class and is a highly personal insult ... will leave the up to Rennlist policies whether offside
09-15-2018, 07:38 PM
