sccchiii

ive said this once, I've said this a thousand times. Porsche has shown its hand before and they likely won't offer much goodwill after a certain time period beyond warranty expiration for these engine issues but yes on a case by case basis probably but at some point they will say enough is enough and cut the goodwill cord. The only sure outside warranty expiration help you are most likely to receive is if government were to deem it a safety related issue that must be fixed by Porsche (and even then Porsche could fight that). Other than that, just because you have a mountain of evidence proving a defect (debatable if these changes proves a defect and not Porsche simply saying they are longevity improvements) does not mean they have any obligation to cover a repair outside warranty period! Is it smart to? Sure but certainly not guaranteed and again in the past there have been several stubborn instances of them basically saying pound sand we are done. Wish, hope, threaten, do whatever....my simple point is it most likely will take legal action outside warranty and if you lose case it will be obviously costly.

bigskyGT3

As already illustrated by F1CrazyDriver and others above, there is previous data on how Porsche will behave out of warranty. I could see them swapping out the occasional engine out of warranty depending on the situation, customer, dealer etc. I personally believe this would not happen in the majority of out of warranty cases.

For me, I would not own a 991 GT3 out of warranty without an extension. i just don't like the risk given the engine. My name is on a list for the 991.2 GT3, but I'm sure it will be awhile if at all when I am offered an allocation. If I am offered a car, I'll have to think about it and look at the available data/feedback from owners to see if the issues have been reasonably resolved. I'll also have to look at the reliability of the GT4 to see if I want to let it go.

I totally understand and accept the risk/reward with these high strung cars (not just Porsche). Just trying to minimize the BIG badness situations that can kill morale and the bank account.

Unconscionable

Market share is lost incrementally. Piece by piece. Pissed off owner by pissed off owner.

Any CEO that thinks by having a failed product, she can sell more future products, is signing a death wish. It won't happen today or any time soon, but it will happen if this is their continued modus operandi. That's simply egregious.

But it's up to you to stop buying them.

Macca

Yes I think if a 991GT3 without warranty was offered to me today at market price i would say no.

Let's be real here folks those gone is not destroyed when you get the CEL!

If you had to pay privately to replace the cams with the latest DLC ones and replace with new followers and labour we are talking around 10k job with labour and a good discount.

Dundon motorsports may well have a cheaper and better solution shortly....

If I were offered a 991 GT3 with no warranty at the "right price" I feel comfortable enough to buy it. I'd have the remedial work done right away.

As for the 991.2 GT3 - I think given the series of changes over the last few years the current solution means it could take 2-3 years of hard track use before any issues are known...

ipse dixit

This is quite a change of view from you, Macca.

Especially coming from someone who felt pretty "confident" that Porsche would replace these engines out-of-warranty based on goodwill.

Why the change?

robmypro

Guys, sorry my post turned this thread into a mess. All I will say is, if you have concerns, don't buy a 991 GT3, sell the one you have before the warranty runs out, or make sure you get an extended warranty. I have 2.5 years to enjoy this thing before my warranty runs out. By then I should have evidence to show that Porsche is doing the right thing, or they aren't. If I feel things are too shaky, I will most likely just trade it in on a new GT3.

In any case I refuse to buy into this doom and gloom mentality. Again, the risk that I get stuck with an expensive paper weight is...zero.

As always, do what you think is right. None of us know with absolute certainty what comes next. Again, sorry for getting so many people upset because I don't believe this situation is that bad. I just don't. And I refuse to throw Porsche under the bus when they have done nothing wrong to me.

Macca

Hi mate. I'm still confident Porsche will provide the parts to update/fix the engines "gratis" for some time after the warranty expires. Let's not talk replacement engines as I believe this practice will slow down or stop in the future.

Like you I am not concerned and this is definitely not spoiling my enjoyment of the car.

What I was trying to say above is that I would even buy a car without the fix applied and out of warranty if the price was cheap enough to allow provision for me to put aside 10k to do the work myself even if PAG refused to cover the work....

qbix

How many track hours this engine needs to hold so it is considered reliable?
Race engines needs rebuild every 50h or so.

Macca

I think we agree given the frenzied nature of the engine and its power per litre, then 100 track hours and above would be considered acceptable...

bigskyGT3

I agree its going to take some time to see how these fixes do. We'll have to wait and see. In the mean time enjoy the car.

To be clear, I think the GT3 is a top of the food chain sports car. Probably one of the best all around street and track cars. If I had one, I would continue to enjoy it under warranty.

I am not bagging on PAG. From what I see, they are busting their humps to take care of this. Many other manufacturers would use track time as an excuse to refuse coverage even under warranty. Just saying if my car had a problem after warranty, I'm not sure I would be surprised if they denied "goodwill" coverage.

JCtx

I was scared from a GT3 ever since the 2014 fiasco, so don't own one. But have a question for the owners: How exactly is tracking spelled out on the warranty? I haven't read of a single engine failure on a non-tracked car, therefore it must be considered a tracking issue, correct? Most car manufacturer warranties specifically exclude tracking, including Ferrari, BMW, and MB, I believe (basically everybody except Porsche GT cars and McLarens). I'm curious if Porsche is already doing 'goodwill' engine swaps even during warranty (if not specifically included). Another possible move is to exclude tracking again (if included), like most others do. It'll be interesting to see how this thing unfolds.

qbix

To add oil to fire (but I don't know how it refers to US market) the extended warranty doesn't cover track days. I am still in process of obtaining that information first hand. I will pay a visit to a local dealer in Germany and report it here for the EU part of the forum. So for now take it as a rumour only.

Maybe you should also check T&C of your warranty extension as I don't believe that anyone would warrant amongst other components engine and transmission for 10 year of heavy abuse getting like 1200EUR premium per year.
The insurer may well say that cam wear is normal and that is not covered by the warranty...

Macca

There are cars reported here already that have failed with no track work. As i have repeatedly said this will affect ALL GT3/RS engines in time if mileage is high enough. Type of usage (track) may speed up that.

On the subject of extended warranty I was under the local distributors extended warranty when the second E engine was replaced with the G engine and there were no issues - it was never questioned. Both engines were tracked and 85% of those on here who have received new engines or heads have been tracking their cars. PAG are rock solid supporting this.

Like I said before, this isnt an monumental failure of the engine like the 996/7 M96 engine issues refereed to by Levd and others. Those engines did their crank bearings and were in need of a full rebuild. We are talking worn rocker fingers here. $1800 for PAGs latest improved DLC units. Labour. If you are unlucky cams. If the car went 80-100 track days before needing new finger rockers we would all accept that as a wear item...

doubleurx

There is a special section in the warranty for tracking. It only requires enhanced maintenance. Otherwise the full warranty covers track use.

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

We're still getting our solution ready, as cars are coming out of warranty, the end of this year into next, I'm sure some aren't counting on an out of warranty engine replacement...

European vacations are slowing down some of the production, but we're not stopping!

Jamie