robmypro

Thanks man! They are 1/2 full. ****, they may even be overflowing.

sparkyglenn

Dropping $200k on a car with a known flawed engine with unknown post warranty Porsche behaviour is pretty high risk in my books.

Just saying everyone's risk tolerance is very different.

neanicu

Not knowing how Porsche would handle such a situation when owners are out of warranty leads us only to guessing. Although,as with anything,there's a history. Unless the company's policy has changed,they haven't done much for owners with IMS issues in 996/early 997 cars,until the NHTSA's involvement.

F1CrazyDriver

Which is a greater % of Porsche owners over GT owners. Which means current GT owners, left w/ a bad taste, another normal non GT owner is just waiting lurking to get in. Just look at the markups on these cars... always someone in line.

Nor have they done anything about all Metzger motors of the 996/997 generation with coolant pipes issue / engine vibration damping issue (bolts backing out on .2). The coolant issue, which puts ALL motorist near that vehicle in the highway at risk of death and occupants - rather then some rich folks crying about their toys revving to 9k is now broken, and a much lower RF of injury... yeah i'd say Porsche will look the other way after warranty.

neanicu

Guys,to those that own the 991GT3,please don't take all this the wrong way. You might think that since it's coming from those that do not own the car... We are only trying to prepare you for the worst...just in case. The smart owner buys extended warranty IMO,if they want to keep the car. I'll do the same thing with the GT4. It's been reliable so far,but as with everything new they build these days,I bet it's not bulletproof.

F1CrazyDriver

Agree.
I don't own a 991 GT3, however i'm right behind you guys fighting the cause for Porsche find the solution sooner rather then later. I would HATE to see anyone be in the situation where you have to pay for a new motor for a well known problem (like this one) because of Porsche negligence. I had to pay $$ out of pocket for 2 metzger motors coolant fixing, 996 turbo, 997 gt3. Well known hydraulic issues on 996,s paid for all of them - Porsche looked the other way every-time. A friend had his 9972cs tear down at 25k the bill to repair the IMS issue at dealer, where was Porsche on that repair ?

robmypro

No worries. I don't blame anyone for being nervous about it. I have 2.5 years left on my warranty and fully expect the engine to be replaced before then. At that point all should be solid.

I also encourage everyone to read their warranty booklet. It covers dispute resolution and arbitration details which should be helpful. Some interesting details in there.

nxfedlt1

agreed. I added 7 years.

Macca

Thanks Grant for the correction. I think I must have confused myself there.

I heard a little more about the "failed" 991GT3 RS G engine last night. Delivered late August, Germany, 14,000 km, 8000km on track (approx 35 days) including a number of sessions this season at the Germany one make series. cEL light with scored finger rockers being replaced with the new DLC cams.

PAG have been very good so far at supporting this. But like others have said it won't last for ever. My guess is now it is also affecting the 4.0l units they will see us right for a little while to come. I'd imagine they have settled on the DLC cams as the final revision till after the 991.2 is launched. I think while that is still selling (assuming identical engine architecture) they will hi,d our hand. When the GT cars go turbo in "992" generation then I suspect we will be on our own...

WernerE

That's no panacea. See post #1433 ^

Al Pettee

Wow, lots of Porsche Kool-Aid...no, rather spiked Kool-Aid...drinking going on in this thread.

People honestly believe PAG will happily send you new free replacement GT3 crate engines after your warranties run out in perpetuity? And if they don't, you'll call your lawyer and sue them for the engines? I know Americans maintain the mentality that they can sue their way to get what they want, but wow.

Wow....

Omi

In the United States there is little reason to believe that Porsche will do anything other than what costs them the least in immediate dollar terms, even if all GT3s are affected. I base this on the owner and enthusiast bases, Porsche history, and how most automotive companies conduct themselves with mechanical issues and even safety related issues.

In the near term and given the company's apparent objectives, Porsche’s current approach is all that’s needed and it may even benefit Porsche. They may see an increase in warranty claims but they have the option to fight those or at least draw them out on a case by case basis. Additionally, once the cars are out of warranty they will either sell more parts or sell more cars.

The primary way this could negatively impact Porsche is in the long term. Among Porsche’s competitors, McLaren is going downmarket, a new i8 is coming, a new GT-R is coming, new NSXs are being produced, and a new Tesla Roadster is on the way. Will Porsche be impacted? Some say the 911 has seen many competitors come and this is not new. Others will say that there is a major shift in the industry coming that really is new. They may say that for the first time Porsche is commenting on some of its competitors. They may also say that buyer tastes and enthusiasm are changing in a way that is new as well.

Is any of that enough to incentivize Porsche to invest significant resources into previous and already-sold products? That is not likely, especially if it is a low volume product among their most loyal base.

The GT3 is doing better than it ever has despite it no longer having race pedigree, despite it not having a manual transmission, and despite the first engine related issues. If anything, the way everything has occurred and the way people have reacted should encourage Porsche to continue along this track.

If one were the CEO of Porsche pursuing the company’s present objectives, the current approach would be the one to adopt. It would yield the highest revenue and reduce liabilities. It would increase future sales in parts and/or ensure demand for cars. Both investors and the board would be happy in the brief time it took to discuss the GT segment. A few loyalist customers might be unhappy but the next GT3 will be more reliable and will have features that they desire. Another RS is also on the way and that is effectively guaranteed to sell. The remainder of one’s time can be spent looking at the high volume cars such as the Macan and Cayenne, looking at company performance in Asian markets, examining emerging markets, and working to ensure Mission E comes to market on schedule and as planned.

The only way this does not go optimally is if the competition gets more intense than expected or if GT3 owners create a lot of "noise" and fight for a solution.

In any scenario, new competition will take significant time to materialize, more than the timeline of this incident, and the impact of that competition is not likely to be materially detrimental to the GT3.

GT3 owners can file a class action law suit but how many are going to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary to pursue that? Those with the resources to do so also own other cars and for a number of valid reasons, are not concerned. The remainder are held “in check” by the dealer system. They typically do not want to impact their relationship with their dealers and impact their ability to buy future Porsches.

That leaves the main risk being action (eg class action lawsuit) in a more modern “viral kick starter” style. That is really the only situation in which Porsche’s hand could be forced. But if that were to happen, Porsche could settle the suit on favorable terms: Not all GT3s would be covered, the settlement would take many years, and the solution could be the cheapest one that is determined at the time of the settlement of the suit (many years in the future). By that point in time, the issue would not be very meaningful to today's owners and the settlement solution could be engineered to be very simple (low cost to Porsche). Since it’s unlikely that the class would seek and successfully win a lot more, and since Porsche has a legal department on staff, the incremental cost to them is not significant and this low probability outcome is a “risk” well worth taking. This is especially true since such actions would probably accompany or follow attempted “fixes” in the aftermarket. Those attempted “fixes” would result in many GT3s being removed from Porsche’s liabilities on potential engine related warranty claims. That would help to further reduce Porsche's liabilities, particularly in worst case scenarios, but also in other scenarios.

levd

As I already mentioned here, those who didn't own 997 Carreras, should probably google IMS/RMS.

Good luck with your blind belief in PAG or lawyers.

WernerE

Here's a thread from 2015 on 996/997 GT3 motor longevity, including a post by Mooty claiming 200 hours of track time, which is impressive.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...997-gt3-s.html

Outlaw

Man I really admire you guys and your faith in this car. Any other brand and we would see a populist revolt ...

Having seen results on manufacturing defects from post "class action" claims for the last 20 years, it's not pretty at all. Unless of course you have damages as in takata and GM ignition deaths.

So yeah, get warranties.