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That's awesome!! Congrats. Keep us updated. I'm joining this thread a bit late and saw you said you have done one track event, are you planning to do more?
I recently bought a 2015 GT3 on its 3rd motor. F, F, and now the G motor. It's been bulletproof for me and the previous 2 owners, all using it almost exclusively at the track. 7k miles on the G motor now and going strong. *subtly knocks on wood*
Truth be told, I’m probably done tracking it now that the objective has been met. Happy to have that grenade out of there. The .1 gamble was won
I have full confidence that the G6 will take the abuse, but I’ll probably shift focus to Chump or LeMons - I cut my teeth on driving slow cars fast, not vice versa.
Also, I bought this car when my only child was 8 months old, and I intend to give it to him when he’s old enough... so roughly 45. Gonna try to make it last.
Well, it looks like I'm on the way to a new one. I'll find out on Thursday.
2015 with the original engine (F02566) 30,200 miles. Purchased as a CPO on 11/21/2020 with 27,882 on the clock. 1st drive by me was from Plano, TX to Raleigh, NC, and it was flawless.
^ Could be something minor, but certainly possible that you're about to get a new engine. Reminds me that I need to break in my new engine for the track season starts, though the car looks so pretty right now after being detailed that I almost want to not track it!
Well, it looks like I'm on the way to a new one. I'll find out on Thursday.
2015 with the original engine (F02566) 30,200 miles. Purchased as a CPO on 11/21/2020 with 27,882 on the clock. 1st drive by me was from Plano, TX to Raleigh, NC, and it was flawless.
Did the fault happen at high rpm’s? If so, new engine on the way!
For those new to this thread wishing a synopsis this is an email I wrote to a member today who contacted me by PM...
"Hi There,
Thanks for your email.
Currently, via Rennlist and direct contact I have 35 examples of the CEL engine “misfire code” leading to replacement of complete engines or in a few cases new cam towers with full valve train (top end replacement).
From that rather small sample size 73% are E1 engines and 27% are F engines. E1 simply denotes these engines were the replacement E engines after the stop sale recall in early 2014.
The engines shipped with the early cars (Sept 2013 build through to July 2014) were simply "E" engines followed by a four digit serial number. All E engines were replaces with "E1" engines by June 2014. The issue at the time was "rod bolt failure". A few examples of cars catching fire was the reason for the global recall. These examples had issues within a few hundred miles. Its (unofficially) believed the issue was in the calibration of the air tool used for torquing the titanium fasteners for the rod bolts. The bolts were designed with a very narrow torque tolerance and the tool was unable to maintain calibration to this specification on the production line. The replacement rod bolts were engineered beyond original specification to handle production line tool calibration variances and the tool itself was subject to frequent calibration checks. They are understood to be the rod bolts that feature in the later RS engine.
E engines had the first generation DLC "finger" rockers/followers. Later F engines we believe had a revised DLC coating on their DLC rockers and what appears to be a revision of oil pressure in the mid rpm range via the ECU. The oil pump in these cars is electronically variable and controlled by the ECU. The finger rockers are Metal Injection Molding (MIM) formed, the alloy constituency unknown but they are light and then coated with a diamond like layer for hardness and durability...
E1 cars were back on the road in Europe and USA from June/July 2014 in time for the European and North American summer and traditional “track season”. These cars are now in their third such season of useage by those who track their cars frequently.
The F serial cars started to be delivered to clients by September 2015. As such they have seen the equivalent of just over one season of use on the track at this time.
With such a small sample base (I personally believe there are around 10x the failures We have knowledge of) and with the F engines having been introduced relatively recently it's difficult to make predictions.
However in September 2016 "G" serial (and e fine)cars started to be delivered to customers. These cars were only in production for approx. 4 months and coincided with deliveries of the first 991 RS which was also G serial. I believe around 3-400 G series GT3 were produced by the factory until production ceased mid Dec 2015.
With the G serial cars Porsche appears to have made updates to the GT3 MA175 engine to match identically (other than crank and 4.0L capacity related components) the RS MA176 engines.
The G engines have re designed heads which include additional oiling galleries. The pump has been updated to a unit for which the higher oil pressures on these cars make up a smaller percentage of their total capability (known as "duty cycle"). This is not to say the E/F oil pumps are inadequate, simply that the pump is now working less to maintain the increased pressure which I guess may aid in long term reliability. Not an issue as I believe as the original pump was already up to the job. ECU software for mid range oil pressure was further revised. Its very likely a third revision of the DLC coated rockers was also used, however this has not yet been confirmed. A new oil filter and neck specific to the G series is fitted.
We have no specific examples of failures of G engines in GT3 and RS at this time, however I have been contacted by a German fellow claiming his G engine RS has suffered the misfire code and its currently being looked at by Porsche. He is in his second European track season with the car as it was one of the first delivered in July 2015 (European cars only take a few days from factory to dealer unlike cars sent by sea to far away markets). I also have a 2nd/3rd hand claim of a European GT3 G series that may have had the same failure. It was a car used in the Porsche race series over in Germany in anger any and an early delivery so its in its 2nd season. However Ive learned not to rely on "here-say", as so far many stories have turned out to be wrong (i.e. it was an F engine "failure" not a G or the issue was unrelated to the valve train etc).
Subsequent we learn in May 2016 that a new engine "G1" is built as a swap replacement for engine issues. It has changes, primarily DLC coated cams (the lobes). This engine is installed in June onward 911RS builds and the new 911R & of course in the 4.0L capacity but the same changes apply. We have evidence of this through photos and the Porsche parts catalogue (PET) and invoices for supply of parts to a German GT3 owner who has just had updated heads fitted with these parts on his E engine.
My advice to you? If Im honest I will tell you I am not confident that Porsche have a 100% handle on the valve train wear issue in the GT3 & RS yet. But I suspect they must be getting close. They have played with the rockers, then the oiling and now the cam lobes. I think they must be very close to addressing this but my confidence has been eroded over three years so I cannot say this is certain.
If I were in the market for a 991 GT3 (great car by the way, you will love it!) and I had intentions to drive it on the track, I would look for an early E series car that has not yet had the engine or heads replaced that carries the longest possible warranty. Some cars were given extended factory warranty until 2019. I would drive it hard at the track understanding it will at some point need a new engine/heads. My theory is you will be given the latest update at that time, a fix I believe is superior to the E and F engines. Infact you will have the very latest tech likely shared by the 911R and 991.2 engines to come depending on when the engine shows the issue. The track warranty and extended duration of warranty are the comfort and the price for earlier higher mileage cars would be less. I would not be concerned about mileage. Low mileage cars will take longer for you to receive your updated parts and enjoy full piece of mind.
The other option is to try and find a G series car. They will be expensive and as demonstrated do not have the "last word" in updates. They could take many years to show the fault and be out of warranty when that happens. I now have the G engine from Feb and fall into this camp. I wish now my E1 engine had hung on for longer so I could today have the G1 engine replacement!
So in summery, its my speculative belief that over a long enough time all E & F engines will exhibit the issue dependent on use and mileage. The F engines do appear more robust but the time line is mucking up the stats and if its taken out long enough I suspect the outcome will be the same failure rate %. The G engines is one supposes more reliable again but much newer with less time on it to show the issues just yet, especially with RS cars which are not tracked with as much volume/frequency and have a lower redline. These "G" RS cars too will exhibit the issue over time. We know for fact that the G series RS & GT3 cannot be 100% bullet proof as PAG have released the G1 engine with further updates. To be honest I don't think they will know exactly how well their changes are tracking till well into 991.2 GT3 production and thus one reason Im not running out to order next gen GT3 at this time. Id rather deal with what I know..."
Thank you @Macca for this post. Still one of the most informative posts on the subject. I'm in the market for a car and considering a .1 because of how much value they are compared to the .2. 4 years later, would your advice on which year to get still stand? 14''s are touching ~100k now.
"If I were in the market for a 991 GT3 (great car by the way, you will love it!) and I had intentions to drive it on the track, I would look for an early E series car that has not yet had the engine or heads replaced that carries the longest possible warranty. Some cars were given extended factory warranty until 2019. I would drive it hard at the track understanding it will at some point need a new engine/heads. My theory is you will be given the latest update at that time, a fix I believe is superior to the E and F engines. Infact you will have the very latest tech likely shared by the 911R and 991.2 engines to come depending on when the engine shows the issue. The track warranty and extended duration of warranty are the comfort and the price for earlier higher mileage cars would be less. I would not be concerned about mileage. Low mileage cars will take longer for you to receive your updated parts and enjoy full piece of mind."
Reading this with interest from Australia. Bought a March 2015 build GT3 with 27,000 km's on the clock a month ago. Had a Porsche dealer inspect the car pre-purchase and they said it was original and immaculate. Took it to the track today for a shake-down today and it lasted 6 laps before it copped a misfire on cylinder 5. Came straight off the track and parked it up. When restarting to drive it home, the error was no longer showing and the car drove home fine, although not at high revs.
Drove it straight to the dealer (not the one who inspected it as they are 1000km's away) and they agreed to look at it Monday, although the service manager said it didn't sound good (meaning he assumed it was something serious). Stay tuned.
FYI The G Series motor replacement is pretty well known (considering our market is tiny compared to the USA) as there are always a few for second hand 991 GT3's for sale specifically saying they have a "replacement G Series motor".
Reading this with interest from Australia. Bought a March 2015 build GT3 with 27,000 km's on the clock a month ago. Had a Porsche dealer inspect the car pre-purchase and they said it was original and immaculate. Took it to the track today for a shake-down today and it lasted 6 laps before it copped a misfire on cylinder 5. Came straight off the track and parked it up. When restarting to drive it home, the error was no longer showing and the car drove home fine, although not at high revs.
Drove it straight to the dealer (not the one who inspected it as they are 1000km's away) and they agreed to look at it Monday, although the service manager said it didn't sound good (meaning he assumed it was something serious). Stay tuned.
FYI The G Series motor replacement is pretty well known (considering our market is tiny compared to the USA) as there are always a few for second hand 991 GT3's for sale specifically saying they have a "replacement G Series motor".
Cheers.
As a quick suggestion and one that I tell everybody. When the dealer is going through their diagnostic process they'll have to clear codes a few times and get them to trigger. The best way to speed this process up is to instruct them to put it in 2nd and simply/slowly rev it up to redline at partial throttle and maybe hold it there for a second or two.
Otherwise, they're having to flog your car around public roads like it is on a race track - too much room for things to go wrong. Like mine was, until I instructed them to go that route.
Originally Posted by michaeldorian
Thank you @Macca for this post. Still one of the most informative posts on the subject. I'm in the market for a car and considering a .1 because of how much value they are compared to the .2. 4 years later, would your advice on which year to get still stand? 14''s are touching ~100k now.
Thanks!
A good post up until that point - obviously more came after this which new conclusions could be drawn from.
I have 36k miles on my 2015 GT3 with F03048 engine. I've done several track events so far with no issue.
I'm scheduled for a track event at NOLA on the 12th and glad I have the warranty through November 2024.
I have 36k miles on my 2015 GT3 with F03048 engine. I've done several track events so far with no issue.
I'm scheduled for a track event at NOLA on the 12th and glad I have the warranty through November 2024.
What's super interesting is that F03048 was the first serial with the major F revision and the same guts of the MY16 "G" engine up until G05372. Great timing on when yours crossed the line!
What's super interesting is that F03048 was the first serial with the major F revision and the same guts of the MY16 "G" engine up until G05372. Great timing on when yours crossed the line!
As a quick suggestion and one that I tell everybody. When the dealer is going through their diagnostic process they'll have to clear codes a few times and get them to trigger. The best way to speed this process up is to instruct them to put it in 2nd and simply/slowly rev it up to redline at partial throttle and maybe hold it there for a second or two.
Otherwise, they're having to flog your car around public roads like it is on a race track - too much room for things to go wrong. Like mine was, until I instructed them to go that route.
A good post up until that point - obviously more came after this which new conclusions could be drawn from.
12-03-2020, 03:50 PM
