Waxer

Good question.

Rich, need to get the autopsy results.

Does anyone know if most of these failures were on cars with over the equivalent of 50+ track hours? And what were their post mortum results?

It could be that Porsche under estimated the amount of track use these cars would get since they are not dedicated track cars and failed the provide appropriate recommendations for rebuild times based on use.

No engine can run forever on the track without track maintenance.

Manifold

Does the cup car engine have any warranty?

Recommended rebuild intervals may be based on maintaining performance, rather than preventing engine failure, and I would expect the former to require shorter rebuild intervals.

If we assume a typical DE day is 2 track hours, we can ask how many DE days the engine should be able to go until a rebuild. Even if you assume only 25 days a year, which doesn't seem high, then you have 100 days and 200 hours in four years, whereas we're seeing engine failures with only a fraction of that. I've seen other street Porsche's go more than 100 track days without an engine rebuild (eg, our Cayman R).

Maybe the 9K rev limit is too ambitious and part of the problem, but I doubt Porsche is going to admit that by doing a recall which backs the rev limit down to say 8.7K (though I personally wouldn't have an issue with that).

Addendum 1: Neither the 6K nor 12K track maintenance includes anything related to potential engine rebuild, and 12K track miles is roughly 80 track days and 160 track hours, so the engine is presumably supposed to be good for at least that much without rebuild.

Addendum 2: Rebuilding the engine during the warranty period could be viewed as voiding the warranty for the engine, so not only should we not be expected to rebuild the engine during the warranty period, but arguably we're not even allowed to do so without risking the warranty. Ergo, assuming we do necessary fluid changes, spark plug changes, etc., the engine is necessarily on Porsche's watch during the warranty period.

tgibrit

Addendum 1: Neither the 6K nor 12K track maintenance includes anything related to potential engine rebuild, and 12K track miles is roughly 80 track days and 160 track hours, so the engine is presumably supposed to be good for at least that much without rebuild.

Addendum 2: Rebuilding the engine during the warranty period could be viewed as voiding the warranty for the engine, so not only should we not be expected to rebuild the engine during the warranty period, but arguably we're not even allowed to do so without risking the warranty. Ergo, assuming we do necessary fluid changes, spark plug changes, etc., the engine is necessarily on Porsche's watch during the warranty period.[/QUOTE]

Thats a great point, preventive maintenance actually voiding the warranty.

Alan C.

Early in the release of the 991.1 GT3 I remember reading a comment by AP that one of the goals was making this engine last 100,000 miles. He didn't say track miles but some percentage of track miles had to be factored into the total.

rm21

No, I never did an oil analysis. BTW, I've done four oil changes since I've had the car, which is well beyond what is recommended.

Waxer

My understanding is that Cups and other race cars after a certain amount hours rebuilds are highly recommended.

The GT3 is not a race car. It's a street track car that I am sure will require a rebuild after a certain amount of track hours. Its a machine that is subject to wear especially from high stress and heat wear and at a certain point I would think a top end refresh is a good idea.

One thing I have noticed is that GT3 routinely predominate as repeat flyers at track days over other high performance exotics. You may see a Lambo, Mac, Ferraris show up for a track day and not come back. Porsches tend to come back again and again.

I am beginning to think Porsche underestimated the number of hours these cars would actually see on the track.

nxfedlt1

Not sure on cup cars, but clubsports, no.

neanicu

I don't think so. AP specifically said : " 80% of our customers take their GT car on a track. " That's a very specific number. He might know something. On top of it,this is the first GT3 that specifies " warranty for track use " as long as regular track maintenance is performed. That track maintenance speaks of CLs,brakes etc...definitely not of top end rebuilds! Overly confident Germans? Perhaps...

CAlexio

i wonder if Porsche will alter their track warranties after this GT3 991.1 situation. Considering the vast amount of money spent, will they pull back, or feel compelled to keep standards with other brands which are now offering track-usable warranties (ford/chevy/dodge/mclaren just to name a few top of mind)

doubleurx

Maybe not on purpose, but the only manuals that list the implied "Track warranty" are the 2014 cars. The mention of maintaining the track warranty vanished in the 2015 & 2016 GT3 manuals.

Kobalt

Is it not just the first year built GT3's that's got track warranty?

"As of now, we can only confirm that the 2014 models had the note regarding track warranty. The note apparently was removed from the 2015/16 race circuit addendum. Very interesting especially since those 2014 warranties were also extended to 100K."

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...arranty-2.html

neanicu

They're all covered despite the mysterious disappearance of the verbiage in the owner's manual. Just go back in this thread and you'll find the 15s that failed on the track and they either approved a top end rebuild or a complete replacement.

GrantG

I think there is a difference between contractually covered by warranty and covered under goodwill by Porsche's discretion. So far they've been very good about warranty coverage with track use, but that could end at some point if it's not explicitly covered like in 2014...

Manifold

I'll read my documents for my '15 GT3 carefully, but I'm pretty sure the warranty doesn't specifically exclude track use, and I also know for sure that Porsche has promoted track use of the car and has provided a document for track use and maintenance which says nothing about track use voiding any part of the warranty.

neanicu

Sure there's a difference,I agree. But why the verbiage disappeared from the 15 and 16 owner's manual is anyone's guess...