nuvolari612

Times are good ego becomes inflated.

If things go down the new GT as the old GT will be witting in a showroom that's a fact but don't know the future but do know Ford needs guys like you and I - today and tomorrow.

I like Ford and the dealers so not going anywhere but that could change

stuntman

Not sure I agree. I know a couple small mom and pop dealership owners who own GTs who would love to own a new GT, and who could afford to buy another to sell. Now imagine what a larger dealership could do? Cars sitting in dealerships, crazy markups, cars being sold to collectors who won't drive them and stash them away. -all things Ford said they didn't want.

At least ford can control who gets the cars and yes, out of ~4000 current GT owners, about 3/4 aren't going to get a NGT. Not everyone is going to be happy.

nuvolari612

Let's take the GT350 & GT350R - allocation.

The way to get them is place a big order on slow moving vehicles.

Same way Ferrari dealers sell a Cali or FF Porsche a Pan Am etc.

Out of 3000 dealers many of these dealers are tiny those that want to play simply have to pay - that's is just my .02.

That's called loyalty - the oldest most successful way of doing business in the auto industry

It's skin in the game - the new GT resume took all the control away from the dealer which is the heart blood and soul of the factory.

stuntman

I disagree. This isn't Porsche or Ferrari. 99.9% of Ford customers in the dealership can't afford the GT and this process is irrelevant to them. Dealerships introduce too many variables. Direct selling ensures the cars go to the customer base Ford wants. Not people who will squirrel the cars away.

Nizer

Yup. And then they'll be $350k cars, and then $750k, and then $400, and then $1.2m and on and on....

nuvolari612

The process is thru dealerships - Tesla sales has been halted in my state because they do not have distribution / dealerships.

Selling direct is a dumb ego driven move - we can simply agree to disagree the dealerships are there for a reason and just because they may have what they feel is a trophy does not make it right.

Ford decided to make 1000 - now let's be fair if Ford wanted to produce 10,000 they could faster than any other car company in the world.

Ask yourself why Ford has limited production - it's ego driven and as you stated they are massive with 3000 dealerships. Ford is 100% wrong it's not their companies direction and they gained zero by their current sales structure.

They could have gained 2 - 3 cars per allocation and what's wrong with dealers adding 50k to MSRP it's their money their car.

If the GT is not selling in a year or two from now which could happen what did the ego decision gain - ego's kill a company.

stuntman

I wonder if your views would be different if you got an allocation (they are still up for grabs). The car is hand built in an essentially race shop. Creating a composite manufacturing plant to make more cars faster when Ford does not have constant supercar production probably didn't make sense. Why does Ferrari limit the Enzo & special models? Ego as well? Why is the 911R limited when face it, there's nothing special about that car. I'm sure dealers would mark the car up 250-500K. He'll, they're already marking up GT350Rs more than $50K.

nuvolari612

Agree.

My issue is not with anything but taking the power away from the dealers. A dealer can do whatever they want but they also get penalized for doing bad business. If a car gets exported or sent out of territory etc.

Again - it's the dealers who should make decisions with the area managers.

Ford vs Ferrari - that's my entire premise Ford produced 4000 GT's for a reason and each one sold thru a dealer. The GT350R you go to a racing school etc Ford should have stayed with that concept for the GT it benefits everyone involved.

To answer your question - my loyalty is with the dealer if the dealer and area manager said yes you can have one do this and that I would do it but to send a resume to Ford was not for me.

If Mclaren Lamborghini can mass produce CF tubs so can Ford - the GT350R I can find them all day at 25k over sticker same with a GT3RS if someone wants to pay more they can Ford GT's Carrera GT's were all sitting below MSRP when the music stopped history tends to repeat itself.

stuntman

Ford sends buyers of all of their performance vehicles (Focus/Fiesta RS/ST, GT350/R) to a free 1 day racing school. I'm sure GT buyers will get at least that.

McLaren and Lamborghini are brands built around producing exotics. McLafen spreads the generic base of the tub across multiple models and the Aventador will likely be replaced with another carbon tubbed car.

Ford isn't in the business of making exotics. It was 10 years between the old GT and this one and producing an excess amount of inventory dilutes the cars value. Ferrari knows this well. If Ford planned on keeping the GT in the lineup with new variants 5-10 years into the future, that would be one thing but the argument would be you're now an annual competitor to exotic brands with only 1 halo model. Look at what happened to the Viper, which had a nice interior and much better build quality than previous generations. The demand wasn't there because anyone could get one and while it could kick a European exotics butt on track, no one cared.

Maybe the GT wouldn't fall to that kind of fate but even you said that old GTs & CGTs sat in dealerships at below MSRP. Your argument ensures history to repeat itself.

Building the cars by hand in a smaller capital investment, limiting the total number and pre selling all of the cars like Ferrari does ensures all the cars are sold. Makes far better business sense to me and keeping the car exclusive than blowing millions on a manufacturing plant that has no future of building exotics, just to appease a few hundred (or thousand) buyers just to see cars not selling on the dealership floor.

nuvolari612

Limited Viper which I bought sold out in hours 100's of them. The Viper is the end of an era car the GT is at the beginning it will be outpaced with the same tech in no time. Back to the Viper it's hand built they produce 700 Ford can and should do the same.

I think you are missing my premise - the GT is about racing and ego - think we can agree on that.

The street car should go thru dealers but they chose to feed the social media world and give customers who have nothing no skin in the game that's a fact.

Ferrari has a pecking order - their customers do not run out of money never have never will. In 09 they shuttered for a few extra weeks 99% of their cars have a sold sticker before it hits production.

Ford GT "one time buyers" are of zero value to the brand long term. They will buy drive flip sell but add nothing but a few glory days only to be parked in a collection of other limited hard to find cars so there goes that thought.

If you are ok with that process we have to agree to disagree.

Let's flip that - dealer has an allocation it sits in their showroom driving in 100's 1000's to the dealership. Selling them at MSRP to excellent customers over to one timers.

If you were a dealer which would you choose - start from there vs a few hundred guys on social media posting pictures only to move on when the next thing arrives.

Agree Ford is not in the business of selling exotics so play by the rules sales thru dealers it's a win win vs what is sure to be a loss in that scope.

As far as investment - race on Sundays sell on Monday that's the idea of the GT put one in the showroom vs a guys collection who has never stepped in a Ford dealer.

CF tub - Lambo said we can make 3000 with one mold making 5000 Ford should do the same.

Mclaren - same tub has been an argument as does the same engine it's a new company hoping to fit into a niche just now finding stable ground.

stuntman

The car was built as a homologation special. Some of the greatest cars of all time were as well. The Aventador is not a racecar and that brand is living on thin margins and the investment in mass producing a CF tub is a big decision that they will live or die by. Ford isn't going to make another CHAT anytime soon, nor will they use a CF tub in any future models like the Mustang. So making the same investment in infrastructure doesn't make sense for a limited production car. They are racing the GT for a total of 4 years -same as production. You're looking at things with a far too narrow focus.

I'm not so sure that halo cars sitting in dealerships is as effective as it use to be. Also through traditional means, dealers would NOT sell them or MSRP. I've already made my argument for selling all of the cars directly vs the mess of markups and cars sitting on lots below MSRP. Dealers are quite selfish and opportunistic.

You're still complaining about a handful of "social media" people, not a "few hundred".

I think we should just agree to disagree.

Waxer

Homologation special? Hell, it's really a homolagation special. They competed in the series last year and haven't delivered one car to this day. Talk about "special".

There is more than enough demand for 3x or even 4 x's the 1000 slated to be built. My bet is they will double production over the 4 years to recoup develpoement costs and increase profits especially if they are racing. Racing is expensive.

The GenII was a specialty build nearly as complicated or as much for that time.

stuntman

The FIA (and competing mfgs) allowed the GT to compete as long as cars were sold in the 2016 calendar year. Which they were:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/first...oduction-line/

The old GT was hardly 'complicated'. It was a parts bin special with a GT500 engine and wasn't that complicated of a car. Yet it still didn't get built through a 'traditional' assembly line.

Waxer

Homologation used to mean actually produced. Not just sold on paper. That was quite an exemption Ford got. I get it they wanted to see the car compete again for its 50th anniversary.

The GenII was in fact a very complicated build for the time including the way in which the panels were formed, stir friction welding special fasteners for the body panels even the space frame chassis.


You are also misinformed that the 5.4 in the Ford GT is the same 5.4 in the GT500. It is not. It is based on that block but it is quite a different piece.

Guest89

I don't think a physically larger engine block will fit in the car due to the "fuselage" style shape.

You are misinformed. Ford could neither engineer nor build the car, as they don't have the resources or personnel to do so, as they don't consistently build cars of this nature. Multimatic in Canada designed the car on the low in concert with very, very few senior Ford engineers; Multimatic is also building the car. Ford lacks the capability.

+1

Ford cynicism through the entire process:

Multimatic designs and builds the car
Get waivers so you can race at Le Mans for your 50th anniversary
Outspend everyone and get special accommodation to run 4 factory cars at Le Mans
Lobby for ridiculous BOP so you can recreate the Ford / Ferrari battle
Lobby tastelessly for Risi Ferrari's exclusion so you can lock out the podium at Le Mans (ultimately unsuccessful)
Never bother actually delivering a single road car to a single actual customer in 2016

... has really soured my opinion of the entire brand, as well as Chip Ganassi. I'm not really in the Ford buyer demographic bucket anyway, but I'd never purchase any Ford after observing their whiny, entitled behavior all year.

If Ford REALLY wanted to recall the first OVERALL victory in 1966, why didn't they came correct with an LMP1 hybrid capable of competing with Porsche, Audi, and Toyota? I suppose Multimatic couldn't have built that for them in a shed in Canada.