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The reason I made the jump from air cooled cars straight to GT3 is because none of the mainline 911s approximated the emotional experience to me. That can be achieved lots of different ways, but its either there or its not. 911 S/4S/GTS? Not feeling it? Turbo? Not feeling it. Drive a manual 997 GT3, there. 991 GT3? with PDK? There. Amazing experience. Different. Snort, pop, bang. Wonderful gearbox and the shifts at 9k are explosive. This engine is mated perfectly with the gearbox, etc.
But a lightweight no wing simple formula sleeper type 911? manual makes more sense.
Not either/or. Just different for different applications.
Interesting read. I have only been in one air-cooled 911 to experience what everyone talks about, but never owned one, and likely never will now due to the massive appreciation of air-cooled 911s.
I feel the same way about all regular 991 911s as you do about all the watercooled 911s.
Its less of a sound thing than it is the feel of driving a Porsche 911 with perfect hydraulic steering that communicates everything, and a chassis that feels alive.
My 997 C2S feels alive and like a 911, but all the regular (non GT) 991 911s don't offer much feel, they don't handle like a 911 in corners, and the steering is numb etc.
As Jethro Bovington said in the 2014 Evo Car of the year competition, won by the 991 GT3:
"Compared to the 997 generation, the 991 911 isn't really a sports car, it's now more of a touring car, but with the 991 GT3.....Definitely a sports car again"
So for me the perfect combination is my black 997.2 C2S cabriolet for a covert daily driver and sunny day convertible, and my Guards Red 991 GT3 for the track, canyon blasts, and for special events or long weekend trips.
I won't own any 991 911 unless it's a GT3 or RS!
Last edited by Drifting; 10-27-2015 at 07:24 PM.
Reason: .
Interesting read. I have only been in one air-cooled 911 to experience what everyone talks about, but never owned one, and likely never will now due to the massive appreciation of air-cooled 911s.
I feel the same way about all regular 991 911s as you do about all the watercooled 911s.
Its less of a sound thing than it is the feel of driving a Porsche 911 with perfect hydraulic steering that communicates everything, and a chassis that feels alive.
My 997 C2S feels alive and like a 911, but all the regular (non GT) 991 911s don't offer much feel, they don't handle like a 911 in corners, and the steering is numb etc.
As Jethro Bovington said in the 2014 Evo Car of the year competition, won by the 991 GT3:
"Compared to the 997 generation, the 991 911 isn't really a sports car, it's now more of a touring car, but with the 991 GT3.....Definitely a sports car again"
So for me the perfect combination is my black 997.2 C2S cabriolet for a covert daily driver and sunny day convertible, and my Guards Red 991 GT3 for the track, canyon blasts, and for special events or long weekend trips.
I won't own any 991 911 unless it's a GT3 or RS!
the air cooled experience is dominated by sound, feel in fingertips through steering wheel, big glass gauges in your face, fishbowl line of sight 360 degrees out of the car, looking out windshield at road, like their is no hood in front of you, but seeing the wings down fenders, metal clank of door shutting, smell of combo German vinyl/leather, glues/adhesives, etc. in the interior, burble of oil doing double duty for lubrication and cooling, etc. And the lightness. Its a go-kart experience. And like driving your pants. Ideal scenario is a modern GT car with something older also. I think many have that combo. Maybe the 911R could hit on best of both,
In your rendition of proposed 911R look don't forget the vertical engine grill slats now part of the 991 styling architecture. Not my favorite part of the new 991 look...
I prefer the horizontal slats by far too. I didn't put vertical in because the look isn't as attractive imo and because the reason given for the vertical slats by some design guys at RRV was related to air flow for turbo engine and intercoolers or something along those lines. So maybe not necessary in na engine?
the air cooled experience is dominated by sound, feel in fingertips through steering wheel, big glass gauges in your face, fishbowl line of sight 360 degrees out of the car, looking out windshield at road, like their is no hood in front of you, but seeing the wings down fenders, metal clank of door shutting, smell of combo German vinyl/leather, glues/adhesives, etc. in the interior, burble of oil doing double duty for lubrication and cooling, etc. And the lightness. Its a go-kart experience. And like driving your pants. Ideal scenario is a modern GT car with something older also. I think many have that combo. Maybe the 911R could hit on best of both,
You make me miss my 993...
If you guys are bummed about not getting a 991 RS or 991 R, just buy a 997 GT3 and have a 4.0 built (along with solid suspension and coilovers and loud exhaust etc). I went for a ride in Leh Keen's 4.0 frog yesterday - in the rain! - a religious experience to get to do that with Mr. Rain Dance himself at the wheel.
We are not allowed to see the marriage room where the engine meets the body because of a 'car that has yet to be announced' is in there. I ask if its a 911R. He smiles and asks what is it we Americans think this car is. I explain (narrow body GT3 with a manual and little aero) and he gives a slightly mischeiveous smile. "I cannot say". I tell him to cough once if I'm right, but I get nothing but another smile. He laughs recanting how in previous times when they've not allowed people in this room, the very car they are hiding is later driving on the campus, so you never know.
Wonder if they really had a 911R on the production line??? What else is supposed to be in the pipeline? Maybe more mundane, like 991.2 4 and 4S? Should be arriving soon if this video is any indication...
The reason I made the jump from air cooled cars straight to GT3 is because none of the mainline 911s approximated the emotional experience to me. That can be achieved lots of different ways, but its either there or its not. 911 S/4S/GTS? Not feeling it? Turbo? Not feeling it. Drive a manual 997 GT3, there. 991 GT3? with PDK? There. Amazing experience. Different. Snort, pop, bang. Wonderful gearbox and the shifts at 9k are explosive. This engine is mated perfectly with the gearbox, etc.
But a lightweight no wing simple formula sleeper type 911? manual makes more sense.
Not either/or. Just different for different applications.
Perfect right there. Reason I went to buy water cooled after 15 years with air....
the air cooled experience is dominated by sound, feel in fingertips through steering wheel, big glass gauges in your face, fishbowl line of sight 360 degrees out of the car, looking out windshield at road, like their is no hood in front of you, but seeing the wings down fenders, metal clank of door shutting, smell of combo German vinyl/leather, glues/adhesives, etc. in the interior, burble of oil doing double duty for lubrication and cooling, etc. And the lightness. Its a go-kart experience. And like driving your pants. Ideal scenario is a modern GT car with something older also. I think many have that combo. Maybe the 911R could hit on best of both,
Again bloody well spot on and the reason I kept my 993 "RS" and added a 991 GT3.
It doesn't matter what the 911"R" is it will never be any of the things you describe for the aircooled let alone all of them together. Game has moved on. Cars are heavier with longer window screen, bigger with electric steering, engines quieter. It can never be the same again. 991 GT3/RS is as close as it gets emotionally right now even with PDK-S, with gT4 close behind (it's engine isn't quite special enough in sound or feel IMO)....
Is it possible that the 2014 GT3 engines that were replaced and are being replaced could be reused in a new car such as the 991R? Would anyone ever know if there were recycled or not?
Is it possible that the 2014 GT3 engines that were replaced and are being replaced could be reused in a new car such as the 991R? Would anyone ever know if there were recycled or not?
Those were bored out to 4.0L and installed in the RS.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Is it possible that the 2014 GT3 engines that were replaced and are being replaced could be reused in a new car such as the 991R? Would anyone ever know if there were recycled or not?
Small cost for Porches to build new engines vs brand damage of doing something like. I think it depends if Porches or VW made the decision.
If they could rebuild them it would have probably gone in later engine replaced GT3s. Don't know if anyone created a log of engine numbers, but seems the most plausible reuse to me , but I still very much doubt they did...
Seriously,they say that the engines got destroyed,but I highly highly doubt that version of the story. That would've been a complete waste.
I think they can use them for testing or some other purposes I'm not aware of,but I doubt they would take the chance of putting them in brand new customer's cars.
Seriously,they say that the engines got destroyed,but I highly highly doubt that version of the story. That would've been a complete waste. I think they can use them for testing or some other purposes I'm not aware of,but I doubt they would take the chance of putting them in brand new customer's cars.
Could they use them for racing or is the engine source very specified?
Could they use them for racing or is the engine source very specified?
That's a possibility,but they have not raced a variation of this engine just yet AFAIK. They have announced that they will though...
But let's put it this way,those replacement engines arrived at dealers across the globe as complete assemblies,with alternators,intakes,AC compressors etc...even with new exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters...EVERYTHING,for ease and speed of installation. And the only problem was internal to the engine.
If someone believes that Porsche took the " old " engine assembly and tossed it in the garbage,I shall laugh in their face.
10-27-2015, 06:59 PM
