New PCCB and Track days – Facts Feedback Thread
11-12-2015, 02:20 PM
#271
Its not hard data, but their twitter page has many postings on Porsche applications. Hope SICOM will hop on the thread at some point.
I will try them when I get to that point. The cost is excellent, just hope the safety is there which is why I will plow through twitter and google a bit more searching for issues. They seem legit so far.
I will try them when I get to that point. The cost is excellent, just hope the safety is there which is why I will plow through twitter and google a bit more searching for issues. They seem legit so far.
11-12-2015, 04:50 PM
#272
Updating table with the following changes
1. Reduced assumed PCCB life from 47 to 40 track days.
2. Increased assumed Iron rotor life from 20 to 30 days
3. Added option 1a assuming refurb Sicom option is viable
4. Updated estimated Sicom refurb cost
5. Reduced estimated Cycle 2+ Iron cost to show Disc cost only
6. Added new section estimating rotor cost per 10 day increments from 10-80 track days.
Given the assumptions made, the Iron rotor option is still the lowest cost alternative though the Sicom option moves the PCCBs close enough that I think many of us would go that route provided the refurbishing process delivers acceptable performance. It will be great to learn more about the viability of refurbishing.
1. Reduced assumed PCCB life from 47 to 40 track days.
2. Increased assumed Iron rotor life from 20 to 30 days
3. Added option 1a assuming refurb Sicom option is viable
4. Updated estimated Sicom refurb cost
5. Reduced estimated Cycle 2+ Iron cost to show Disc cost only
6. Added new section estimating rotor cost per 10 day increments from 10-80 track days.
Given the assumptions made, the Iron rotor option is still the lowest cost alternative though the Sicom option moves the PCCBs close enough that I think many of us would go that route provided the refurbishing process delivers acceptable performance. It will be great to learn more about the viability of refurbishing.
11-12-2015, 05:00 PM
#273
Rennlist Member
I haven't read the whole thread, but are you tracking if traction control is left on or off?
Leaving the systems on will drastically increase the rear rotor wear rate, especially if the driver is not smooth with application of throttle and steering.
I know a guy in a 997 turbo S that cooked his rear rotors in just a few track days as he was tracking with the TC systems fully on and with a heavy foot.
Leaving the systems on will drastically increase the rear rotor wear rate, especially if the driver is not smooth with application of throttle and steering.
I know a guy in a 997 turbo S that cooked his rear rotors in just a few track days as he was tracking with the TC systems fully on and with a heavy foot.
11-12-2015, 05:19 PM
#274
Former Vendor
And always remember for about 95% of Porsche owners you can convert to steel and eliminate these expensive issues. Just a heads up, rather obvious but a gentle reminder :-)
11-12-2015, 05:22 PM
#275
That's the key question for me. If the refurb is viable, I'd gladly pay an extra $50/track day to run PCCB vs. Iron. If not, the Irons are very attractive - at least financially.
11-12-2015, 05:47 PM
#277
Awesome work! For reference, would you mind adding a pure OEM iron column that assumes you order your car with base iron brakes and replace them every 30 track days for comparison (as a baseline cost vs PCCB essentially)?
Updating table with the following changes
1. Reduced assumed PCCB life from 47 to 40 track days.
2. Increased assumed Iron rotor life from 20 to 30 days
3. Added option 1a assuming refurb Sicom option is viable
4. Updated estimated Sicom refurb cost
5. Reduced estimated Cycle 2+ Iron cost to show Disc cost only
6. Added new section estimating rotor cost per 10 day increments from 10-80 track days.
Given the assumptions made, the Iron rotor option is still the lowest cost alternative though the Sicom option moves the PCCBs close enough that I think many of us would go that route provided the refurbishing process delivers acceptable performance. It will be great to learn more about the viability of refurbishing.
1. Reduced assumed PCCB life from 47 to 40 track days.
2. Increased assumed Iron rotor life from 20 to 30 days
3. Added option 1a assuming refurb Sicom option is viable
4. Updated estimated Sicom refurb cost
5. Reduced estimated Cycle 2+ Iron cost to show Disc cost only
6. Added new section estimating rotor cost per 10 day increments from 10-80 track days.
Given the assumptions made, the Iron rotor option is still the lowest cost alternative though the Sicom option moves the PCCBs close enough that I think many of us would go that route provided the refurbishing process delivers acceptable performance. It will be great to learn more about the viability of refurbishing.
11-12-2015, 06:09 PM
#278
^ Me too. I have steel now. Yes they are good on track but I have driven a PCCB car (granted on street) and I like the stopping power which "feels" stronger and more effortless to me. So the RS gets PCCB since SICOM can refurbish. Otherwise I would spec Red brakes and upgrade to the larger CCM-X rotors.
11-12-2015, 06:11 PM
#279
Delta vs. Option 1 is a big number - if you ran 80 track days you could buy a nice 2 year old VW Golf R for the days you didn't want to take your GT3 out!
11-13-2015, 04:29 PM
#282
Former Vendor
380mm CCM Rotor upgrade
This front only 380mm CCM rotor kit is available for those who didn't opt pccb, or have pccb but prefer to run 19" wheels (require to modify yellow calipers to fit by shortening 15mm on caliper leg, and we offer spacers if you want to put the stock rotor back.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
We just received one lot of 380x34 CCM-X discs in from Surface Transforms, and would like to propose an upgrade CCM rotor kit just for the front.
This rotor kit will be made to the same exact dimension as OE iron rotors.
1. Retain the use of same OE (red) caliper
2. Upgrade only the front rotors
2. Can use the same pccb pad
3. Very affordable pricing ($5,500/pair*)
4. Reduce tracking cost by running 19" wheels/tires
5. Receive full after service and back up from RB including re-furbishing
6. Refurbishing cost is less than iron ring replacement
Mercedes starts this front CCB (390x36) option available for their C63S.
*We collectively use the same size of CCM-X rotors for the following and more applications to bring our cost down.
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...l=1#post178768
-------------------------------------------------------------------
We just received one lot of 380x34 CCM-X discs in from Surface Transforms, and would like to propose an upgrade CCM rotor kit just for the front.
This rotor kit will be made to the same exact dimension as OE iron rotors.
1. Retain the use of same OE (red) caliper
2. Upgrade only the front rotors
2. Can use the same pccb pad
3. Very affordable pricing ($5,500/pair*)
4. Reduce tracking cost by running 19" wheels/tires
5. Receive full after service and back up from RB including re-furbishing
6. Refurbishing cost is less than iron ring replacement
Mercedes starts this front CCB (390x36) option available for their C63S.
*We collectively use the same size of CCM-X rotors for the following and more applications to bring our cost down.
- Audi R8 CCM Front Retrofit (from 365 to 380mm)
- BMW M3/M4/M5 BBK
- Ferrari F430 Front
- Nissan GT-R Front (09-11)
- Lexus GS/RCF Front BBK
- Porsche 997 GT2/3 Front (CCM Repl)
- Porsche 991 GT3 Front (CCM)
- Tesla CCM Front BBK
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...l=1#post178768
11-15-2015, 02:01 PM
#284
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,261
Received 1,225 Likes
on
603 Posts
There is also option 5, which is using PFC rotors with replaceable rings, and roughly $700-750 to replace per pair. They seem to last a bit longer than OEM too.
On the spreadsheet - stock front rotors may not last 30 days, and rears would go 40+, especially if not relying on traction control too much. Also, it really does not take 8 hours to replace 4 rotors (unless I'm miunderstanding the spreadsheet). Takes me just under 2 hours to replace front rotors, pads and flip wheels while I'm at it, and I use manual jacks and other low-end tools. I'd say with right tools 3 hours for all 4 will be very leisurely pace. That does not change things much, but makes steel rotors slightly more attractive.
On the spreadsheet - stock front rotors may not last 30 days, and rears would go 40+, especially if not relying on traction control too much. Also, it really does not take 8 hours to replace 4 rotors (unless I'm miunderstanding the spreadsheet). Takes me just under 2 hours to replace front rotors, pads and flip wheels while I'm at it, and I use manual jacks and other low-end tools. I'd say with right tools 3 hours for all 4 will be very leisurely pace. That does not change things much, but makes steel rotors slightly more attractive.
11-15-2015, 03:42 PM
#285
Rennlist Member
I don't see how anyone can look at the table above and consider anything other than steel brakes for a serious track-day campaign.
If you are pushing the performance envelope that much, perhaps you should be employed my Porsche Motorsport, or at the very least participating in some competition - racing.
But what do I know.
If you are pushing the performance envelope that much, perhaps you should be employed my Porsche Motorsport, or at the very least participating in some competition - racing.
But what do I know.