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I'm hoping that as more reports of the Gen 3 PCCBs come on we can put to rest the notion that ceramics are bad for the track because of the cost of replacement.
One can still argue that iron rotors are subjectively better than ceramics because of pedal feel, and that's certainly not an invalid position to take.
But suggesting that PCCBs are not appropriate for heavy track use because they were (historically) price prohibitive may be an outdated notion.
I, for one, would not spec a GT car without PCCBs. But then I like deviated stitching too.
I'm hoping that as more reports of the Gen 3 PCCBs come on we can put to rest the notion that ceramics are bad for the track because of the cost of replacement.
One can still argue that iron rotors are subjectively better than ceramics because of pedal feel, and that's certainly not an invalid position to take.
But suggesting that PCCBs are not appropriate for heavy track use because they were (historically) price prohibitive may be an outdated notion.
I, for one, would not spec a GT car without PCCBs. But then I like deviated stitching too.
Think with PTV, the rears will run close to the fronts. I don't think this can be switched off , nor should you want to as it is a driving aid meant to make the car more nimble.
Rears wear at 1/3 of the rate of the fronts on track. A bit more even on street.
Bump for updates!
I'm on the fence with pccb's and hoping more owners have logged miles could chime in to provide their input, towards the longevity of the Gen 3 pccb's.
-I'm looking at 70% street (winding roads & twisties) 30-35% (4-8 days/Year) track/lapping days. I'm not particularly hard on my brakes when behind the wheel.. so I would really love to hear more about the current Gen 3's.
Bump for updates!
I'm on the fence with pccb's and hoping more owners have logged miles could chime in to provide their input, towards the longevity of the Gen 3 pccb's.
-I'm looking at 70% street (winding roads & twisties) 30-35% (4-8 days/Year) track/lapping days. I'm not particularly hard on my brakes when behind the wheel.. so I would really love to hear more about the current Gen 3's.
The new Gen 3s will meet your needs -- see data posted earlier in this thread. I have had every generation of PCCBs on multiple cars, but my current GT3 is the first car I have tracked -- I am up to 15 track days and almost 10,000 miles on my 2015 car with minimal wear to the rotors. I am probably two track days away from changing the pads which still have more that 50% life on them. If you drive as you described above, I would predict that you will get at a minimum five years of life out of the Gen 3 rotors.
Quick question how different is the pedal feel from iron to pccb? I had a 997tt with iron and now a 3 with pccb, I feel like i have to push the pedal much harder with the pccb. Is that normal?
11k miles, 3+ track days (I don't know how many the previous owner did, but they primarily tracked the car and it was driven by pros), 16 autocross days.
It looks like the rears are taking more of a beating than the front. This is the first time I have gotten these readings and I got them with a new set of tires. Next time I get tires i'll have them read again.
Left Front 1: 51/38/47.40 (72%)
Left Front 2: 59/44/57.9 (72%)
Left Front 3: 59/44/55.1 (74%)
Right Front 1: 63/47/58.6 (73%)
Right Front 2: 65/48/60.5 (73%)
Right Front 3: 57/42/53.4 (76%)
Left Rear 1: 58/45/53 (61%)
Left Rear 2: 59/45/53.4 (60%)
Left Rear 3: 62/47/57.7 (71%)
Right Rear 1: 62/47/57 (67%)
Right Rear 2: 60/46/57.7 (84%)
Right Rear 3: 60/46/54.2 (58%)
Quick question how different is the pedal feel from iron to pccb? I had a 997tt with iron and now a 3 with pccb, I feel like i have to push the pedal much harder with the pccb. Is that normal?
Could they be cold? I noticed a much better bite with the PCCBs on a 991 GT3 than with irons on a Carrera.
That is definitely not my experience - I have iron rotors on a Panamera, and PCCBs on a Cayenne and the GT3. The PCCBs definitely lack feel when they are cold or initially when wet; but once at operating temperatures I do not notice much difference in the pressure required. They is a subtle difference in feel, but in day-to-day use and on the track you have to think about it to recognize it. I actually think the PCCBs "feel" better too me & both are equally capable of stopping the car at any speed.
11k miles, 3+ track days (I don't know how many the previous owner did, but they primarily tracked the car and it was driven by pros), 16 autocross days.
It looks like the rears are taking more of a beating than the front. This is the first time I have gotten these readings and I got them with a new set of tires. Next time I get tires i'll have them read again.
Left Front 1: 51/38/47.40 (72%)
Left Front 2: 59/44/57.9 (72%)
Left Front 3: 59/44/55.1 (74%)
Right Front 1: 63/47/58.6 (73%)
Right Front 2: 65/48/60.5 (73%)
Right Front 3: 57/42/53.4 (76%)
Left Rear 1: 58/45/53 (61%)
Left Rear 2: 59/45/53.4 (60%)
Left Rear 3: 62/47/57.7 (71%)
Right Rear 1: 62/47/57 (67%)
Right Rear 2: 60/46/57.7 (84%)
Right Rear 3: 60/46/54.2 (58%)
Interesting results, what I don't know and I have similar data posted above is how much initial wear is there during the first few hundred miles and is the wear rate uniform. For example on your left front rotor position 1, did the rotor actually measure 51 when it was new and had the wear been uniform from mile one?
In my experience (I will have three samples to report by the end of the track season this Fall -- two samples are reported above), I believe that the rate of wear might decline slightly from the initial wear; perhaps that's wishful thinking but more information like your data above will help find the answers.
Here is more data -- I have had the PCCB rotors and pads checked twice by the same Porsche dealer but two different service techs. The first came after 5 tracks days (486 miles -- 4 at Sebring a 1 at Lime Rock) and 4,792 total miles. The second came at 6 more track days (705 miles all at Lime Rock) and 8,670 total miles.
I wish I had measured the rotors when the car was new. I suspect that the change between the "new figure" numbers, which are etched onto the rotor hat, and the first readings at 4,792 miles may represent initial break in wear as much as the 486 mile track wear. There is not much apparent wear between the first and second readings when the car spend 705 miles on the track; is it possible that initial wear is higher and once the rotors are "broken in" the wear slows down?
Obviously there is also some variability in the readings because some of the second readings are higher than the first readings +/- 5%??? Only the first reading on the Left Rear is way off?
Here is my data from above -- the 705 track miles on August 18 and in addition to the 486 track miles from the initial reading; or 1191 total track miles - 486 miles at Sebring and 705 track miles at Lime Rock.
Here is my data from above -- the 705 track miles on August 18 and in addition to the 486 track miles from the initial reading; or 1191 total track miles - 486 miles at Sebring and 705 track miles at Lime Rock.
Very important to know if these miles are ran with PASM/TC on, PASM OFF/TC On, or with all turned off. This will change the amount of wear the rotors see since the system uses the brakes to keep the car in check.
Could they be cold? I noticed a much better bite with the PCCBs on a 991 GT3 than with irons on a Carrera.
Originally Posted by NMM991
That is definitely not my experience - I have iron rotors on a Panamera, and PCCBs on a Cayenne and the GT3. The PCCBs definitely lack feel when they are cold or initially when wet; but once at operating temperatures I do not notice much difference in the pressure required. They is a subtle difference in feel, but in day-to-day use and on the track you have to think about it to recognize it. I actually think the PCCBs "feel" better too me & both are equally capable of stopping the car at any speed.
Maybe they do only feel that way cold. I'll have to pay more attention to when it feels that way. It just seems some times on hard on the pedal to get it to slow down fast but maybe I just didn't have enough heat in them. Thanks for your replies
Very important to know if these miles are ran with PASM/TC on, PASM OFF/TC On, or with all turned off. This will change the amount of wear the rotors see since the system uses the brakes to keep the car in check.
PASM/TC were on at all times. I basically know how these systems work but I don't find them too intrusive, especially if I am driving well. If I get sloppy, they will they step in and save my butt -- I find that I can get the car a little out of shape and not have them intervene; their implementation on the GT3 seems to be more delayed that my experience seems to indicate on other 991 and 997s that I have owned. Given the value of the car, I will probably never turn them off -- a little additional rotor wear is acceptable to me.
The one time I turned them off was on an AutoX in the rain, and I was trying to master power-on oversteer. Before I knew it was happening, I spun off the track at a low speed but hit the turf hard enough to demount a rear tire but fortunately not hard enough to do other damage.
Maybe they do only feel that way cold. I'll have to pay more attention to when it feels that way. It just seems some times on hard on the pedal to get it to slow down fast but maybe I just didn't have enough heat in them. Thanks for your replies
I agree -- it's very noticeable when they are cold. I notice it every morning leaving my house, there is a hill at the bottom of my street where I first apply the brakes and I have learned to feather the brakes as I approach the stop sign. Less of a problem on warm summer mornings - not sure why.
09-12-2015, 07:35 PM
