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Road use • Use the cold pressures recommended by the car manufacturer
* This information applies to the majority of cars regularly used on circuits e.g: Audi R8, BMW M3 E90 / E46 / F80, Porsche GT3 / GT3 RS / 911 Carrera / Boxster/Cayman, Renault Megane RS, Subaru Impreza/WRX/BRZ
For all other cars and in particular for heavy cars or for any other specific information, please contact your local website www.michelin...
CAUTION !
• If not used for a prolonged period of time, remove the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres (mounted on their wheels) and reduce their pressure to half their normal value to store.
• Store tyres in a clean, dry area, away from direct sunlight and above 0°C (32°F) in accordance with the information provided by Michelin in technical documentation or their website.
• Do Not use, store or handle MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres at ambient temperatures below -10°C (14°F).
• Under these conditions the tyre components can degrade, resulting in reduced performance, and at low temperatures can lead to cracks in the tyre compound and hence reduce potential in use.
So, if it's recommended that tires be stored above 32F, would that imply that driving on them would be subject to same?
• Store tyres in a clean, dry area, away from direct sunlight and above 0°C (32°F)
• Do Not use, store or handle MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres at ambient temperatures below -10°C (14°F).
So, if it's recommended that tires be stored above 32F, would that imply that driving on them would be subject to same?
Perhaps the minimum recommended storage temp (0C/32F) is different from the minimum ambient driving temp (-10C/14F) because the tires will warm up with driving.
I interpret their reference to 'storage' and 32 F as meaning for months or longer.
For regular use and exposure of the tires, they seem to be saying that anything above 14 F is fine, and there's no mention of grip falling off below the typical ~40 F, which I find surprising.
Accounting for all the info I've seen so far, my personal thoughts for the MPSC2 are:
- Don't expose the tires to less than 20 F or drive on them below 20 F. Worry if they're exposed to less than 14 F, inspecting them carefully before using them if that happens, and maybe not using them on track at all, even if they look fine.
- Use the tires carefully at temps between 20 and 40 F. Track use is fine, but take it easy and give the tires time to warm up. Preferably use winter tires if routinely driving at these temps and not going to the track (grip will be better, and they can handle snow and ice).
- Use without restriction above 40 F, but be careful in rain, especially as the tread wears.
Lot splitting hairs here. Tyre compound obviously not compromised till -10C. Storing above 5C recommended probably to better retail shape on rack other than anything else. I've driven the tyre extensive between 5 and 18c in Europe and as low as minus one and an tell you it's solid from 5 up. Remember within a few Miles you have already put another 7-14C into the tire carcass. Rest easy the sky will not fall.
65 more miles on the car today, staying within break-in rules (well almost, max ~4.6k).
More observations:
- Ride is fine for a DD, but certainly on the firm side. Not a car for truly rough roads.
- I get the PDK thing. I don't think I'd want manual in this car. The handling and braking are so good and precise that you're beckoned to go faster, to the extent that manual would be a distraction. And yes, I was among those who were very critical of manual not being offered. But when you find yourself shifting frequently, including in corners, the virtues of the PDK become quite apparent. The experience is anything but boring. The car is an Olympic athlete.
- In manual mode, the response to the paddles feels instant, except that I did have some upshifts that were delayed. Car was warmed up, and it seems to depend on how aggressively the car is being driven. Also, once in manual mode, I inadvertently knocked the car into neutral when attempting a downshift with the stick - be careful! I'm getting used to the paddles, but I think I could get used to the stick also.
- Going back to my earlier review from a few months ago, doing some rather spirited driving today reinforced the thought in my mind that this car is fundamentally made to go fast, bordering on a race car made drivable on the street (feels that way even while staying within break-in rules). That kind of driving on the road can be fun, but it's also risky, and not something I'm generally inclined to do in my neck of the woods. You can drive it at sane speeds on the road too, and that's not a bad experience, but I think that other cars could be better choices for road-only use in terms of subjective enjoyment, at least for me (haven't done any back to back comparisons yet). In fact, for anyone wanting a 991 and on the fence about getting the GT3 for road-only use, I'd take a look at the 991 GTS also (haven't driven one, I'm extrapolating from experience with other Porsches).
Turns out that I got a nail in a tire my first day with the car, resulting in a slow leak. My dealer was kind enough to remove the nail and plug the tire (don't worry, plug is in the tread, not sidewall or shoulder). Here's the car on the lift:
And a shot of the underside of the front splitter (no scraping at all today, further confirming I didn't need the front lift):
But lest anyone thing think I'm growing cold to the car, I still think it's amazing and I feel very lucky to have a machine like this.
Ok Manifold, you're slipping back into your old ways again if one has the bucks (and not too many more at that) why in the world would anyone prefer a GTS to a GT3 for non track purposes---, other than if you want to row the gears? You don't have to be a track star to appreciate an aggressive super responsive car that is , at least in my mind, more than comfortable enough for DD. Moreover, and somewhat to my surprise, the thing feels pretty torquey around town, with its shorter ratios and free revving nature. It's almost like some track guys are bothered by the fact that the GT3 does provide a great experience off the track- ie as if that somehow would detract from its track credentials. Let's face it- Porsche has just mad a flat out brilliant driver's car here, that is an over-achiever both on and off the track!
Ok Manifold, you're slipping back into your old ways again if one has the bucks (and not too many more at that) why in the world would anyone prefer a GTS to a GT3 for non track purposes---, other than if you want to row the gears? You don't have to be a track star to appreciate an aggressive super responsive car that is , at least in my mind, more than comfortable enough for DD. Moreover, and somewhat to my surprise, the thing feels pretty torquey around town, with its shorter ratios and free revving nature. It's almost like some track guys are bothered by the fact that the GT3 does provide a great experience off the track- ie as if that somehow would detract from its track credentials. Let's face it- Porsche has just mad a flat out brilliant driver's car here, that is an over-achiever both on and off the track!
Just my honest observations and opinions, no worries if people disagree. After all, we all have different frames of reference, and the discussions can be interesting, enjoyable, and informative if we keep that in mind.
The car shines when driven fast, no doubt about it. What I'm questioning is how realistic and safe those speeds are on the vast majority of roads. For me, I say no, too fast for the road. Wife was in the car today, and I asked her to tell me my speeds on a country road. I cringed ...
At lesser speeds, up to say 1.5x or 1.6x speed limits, I agree that the car can still be fun to drive. I just think that other cars, like a prior-gen 911 with manual could be more fun. But to each his own, fun is subjective. If someone is having fun, they're having fun, I'm not going to tell them otherwise.
Couple other observations, while I remember:
- Steering feels somewhat heavy. That's good from the standpoint that it helps the driver dial in steering input gradually and nicely control how hard the car is being leaned on.
- Overall, the car doesn't feel heavy, but it doesn't feel light either. Not sure why, but may have to do with the weight of the steering, the longer wheelbase, and the combination of springs and damping. This doesn't take away from the car feeling agile and planted, just makes the car feel less tossable. But my preferred driving style is fairly smooth, and to the extent I've been able to push the car so far, it seems well suited for that driving style.
We're all cool! I guess my point is this. I certainly can't disagree that the GT3 is at its best when driven fast and hard--and that is somewhat limited on the road. What I'm saying is that within the road driving universe, where most of us spend most of our time , I can't see how the GTS could be deemed a better road car unless you are looking for a cushier drive or want to row the gears. If anyone is in either of those categories, I don't begrudge them for it--just not my priorities . YMMV
We're all cool! I guess my point is this. I certainly can't disagree that the GT3 is at its best when driven fast and hard--and that is somewhat limited on the road. What I'm saying is that within the road driving universe, where most of us spend most of our time , I can't see how the GTS could be deemed a better road car unless you are looking for a cushier drive or want to row the gears. If anyone is in either of those categories, I don't begrudge them for it--just not my priorities . YMMV
You may be right, and I haven't driven the 991 GTS. My GTS experience is with our Cayenne GTS and a Panamera GTS. The GTS concept seems to be about making the cars considerably more fun at all speeds - in terms of feel, sound, appearance, etc. - even if the absolute performance increase is modest. The GT3 seems more focused on absolute track performance, including track durability and reliability (though of course I haven't driven it on track yet), with the benefit on the road being somewhat dependent on how close to track speeds you're going.
But no bad choices here, these cars are all very impressive.
You can debate GTS or GT3 for road driving until you are blue in the face. I do not track and I think this is a perfect road car. I find it comfortable, loud, raw and a blast to drive.. No doubt it has an anxious temperament below 5000 rpms but I do not see how I would enjoy the GTS more or even equal on the road. I want my sports car that I drive on the weekend to feel/look like the ultimate toy. This just checks all the boxes for me.
You can debate GTS or GT3 for road driving until you are blue in the face. I do not track and I think this is a perfect road car. I find it comfortable, loud, raw and a blast to drive.. No doubt it has an anxious temperament below 5000 rpms but I do not see how I would enjoy the GTS more or even equal on the road. I want my sports car that I drive on the weekend to feel/look like the ultimate toy. This just checks all the boxes for me.
100% aligned with this. It's a personal preference thing. And I like that many may choose a GTS over a GT3 - means you don't see many on the road. I'm sure I would really enjoy driving a GTS, because I enjoy driving sports cars :-). The GT3 just lines up best with what I enjoy in my driving experience. I'll track less than a handful of times a year, and it's nice to know that when I do, the GT3 is a weapon there too.
You can debate GTS or GT3 for road driving until you are blue in the face. I do not track and I think this is a perfect road car. I find it comfortable, loud, raw and a blast to drive.. No doubt it has an anxious temperament below 5000 rpms but I do not see how I would enjoy the GTS more or even equal on the road. I want my sports car that I drive on the weekend to feel/look like the ultimate toy. This just checks all the boxes for me.
Glad you love your GT3, I do too!
To clarify, I said "for anyone wanting a 991 and on the fence about getting the GT3 for road-only use, I'd take a look at the 991 GTS also," not that I'd necessarily get the GTS. But let's keep in mind that even the base 991 is no slouch, and much of what we like about the GT3 is due to its being a 991, IMO.
More observations and thoughts:
- I have to think the MPSC2 tires are part of why the car performs so well. Grip, precision, and feel even at these 28 to 35 F temps is impressive.
- From the passenger seat, my wife was surprised at how readily the car 'rotated' in tighter turns, to the extent of it feeling disconcerting to her. To me, as the driver, it simply felt like the car was doing exactly what I wanted. Probably a result of the RWS, but maybe also the neutral balance of the car. And that neutral balance is probably a big part of why the car feels so wired to my brain.
- There's a ton of space behind the seats. A shame that the LWBs don't fold to make it more accessible. And of course it'll largely go away when the roll bar is put in.
- Still not a fan of rattling/chattering sound at lower rpms. Doesn't sound like any kind of music to me, just noise. But the car certainly begins to sing at around 4k.
- Backup camera and parking sensors would be nice. With my desired low seating position, I don't yet have much sense of where the front and rear limits of the car are. But hopefully that'll improve with time.
- The interior of the car warms up surprisingly quickly.
Logging my break-in miles quickly is going to be easy, because I'm loving driving the car. Can't wait to drive it tomorrow!
Manifold. Most of what you have observed I agree with. I don't believe you will get the full measure of the car until you can use all he revs available. I have found tight twisty roads the best for extracting the most from the chassis without (much) breaking the speed limit. On suc roads the car feels much smaller than I imagined. My wife will not ride shotgun on fast back road drives in the GT3 any longer because she has trouble with the acceleration between corners - its simply too much and as she says feels surreal like hyperjump to warp speed. Have to say even as driver Im often confounded by the sound/urgency and shove of the car whilst banging through he gears...
Manifold. Most of what you have observed I agree with. I don't believe you will get the full measure of the car until you can use all he revs available. I have found tight twisty roads the best for extracting the most from the chassis without (much) breaking the speed limit. On suc roads the car feels much smaller than I imagined. My wife will not ride shotgun on fast back road drives in the GT3 any longer because she has trouble with the acceleration between corners - its simply too much and as she says feels surreal like hyperjump to warp speed. Have to say even as driver Im often confounded by the sound/urgency and shove of the car whilst banging through he gears...
I agree - while I'm only really pushing to around 7k rpm at the moment, the car feels great on twisty back rounds. Fortunately, there are a lot of twisties around here that are 55mph, with only warnings on corners. In the GT3, you can really enjoy them without having to be at 2x the speed limit.
My wife won't come for those drives with me anymore either. She threw up the last time we were out on them...
I've been thinking of buying a GTS, went at looked at one yesterday. The car looks great, but frankly I think I'll find the steering feel, extra weight and braking performance a disappointment vs the GT3. I've not driven the GTS, but have driven the C2S and TTS - was told there isn't too much in difference between the three. I'm also a huge fan of the LWBs for street driving and don't want to go back to sofas.
Thx for the write up. All thing a being equal, would you rather have this or a same mile .2 RS right now?
=Manifold;11959207]Took delivery of my GT3 today. White, track seats, track app, red belts, NAV, free options, nothing else.
I plan to adhere to the break-in guidelines fairly closely, and took it for a 50-mile initial drive on a variety of roads this evening.
I wanted to post my initial impression while I still remember it. It's not actually my 'first impression', since I previously drove a borrowed
for about a half hour, but I was so cautious with that car that, in retrospect
, I don't think it was a representative test of the car.
So now that I've had a chance to drive my own car, my initial impression is ... WOW! And that's coming from someone who's been very skeptical of the car since the beginning.
P
Some specifics:
- Steering wheel isn't as lively in the hands as the 997, but it's fine. And overall, the steering response is very telepathic, wired to my brain. Can't feel the RWS at all, it just works.
- The car communicates its weight transfer beautifully. Damping of the suspension in both modes is outstanding, and the ride quality is good enough even in the stiffer mode. In fact, I'd say it's even better than my Cayenne GTS.
- Leaving it in auto with sport mode off is a good way to keep the car under 4200 rpm. The power below 4200 rpm is better than I remember, should be enough to get through the break-in period without feeling tortured. I tried manual mode also, with both paddles and stick, and both are good. Upshifts with the paddle were sometimes surprisingly slow, as though something's not working right, but I'll give it more time. I like being able to toggle between auto and manual mode at will.
- The car is effing fast. Can't see how it's going to be much fun reasonably close to speed limits. Different story at 2x speed limits, but I have the track for that.
- Brake pedal feel is excellent. Bite is fairly strong, yet not difficult to modulate very precisely.
- The track seat fits me nicely, and range of height adjustment is large (electric for both seats). I can get a perfect seating position by putting the seat all the way down, and no issues with cutting off circulation in my legs. Lumbar support could be a bit more, but I think it's going to be fine, even on long drives. Lateral support could be better, with deeper bolsters, but these aren't full-blown track seats. Driver's seat has the hole for crotch belts, but passenger's seat doesn't (though the cushion does have a gap for the belts to pass through). WTF? I don't know what Porsche was thinking on this, and I'm annoyed that I need to find a workaround for seats that cost almost $5K.
- A little intermittent rattling in the dash area. Hopefully, it'll go away. Not worried about it, it'll get resolved.
- I'm not sure the car sounds right. Kind of 'truck-like' at idle. There are a bunch of 991 GT3's at my local cars & coffee, so I'll compare with one of those. Looking forward to hearing how it sounds when I can let 'er rip.
- Wing interferes with visibility, but I can deal with it.
Overall, I'm really impressed with the car, and pleased with my decision to buy it. Unless the GT4 is irresistible, I can see this GT3 being a keeper, so I'm not too concerned about depreciation.
I'll post further impressions after I've driven the car more, especially after break-in and tracking it. But for now, I'm a believer! [/QUOTE]
01-17-2015, 11:38 AM
if one has the bucks (and not too many more at that) why in the world would anyone prefer a GTS to a GT3 for non track purposes---, other than if you want to row the gears? You don't have to be a track star to appreciate an aggressive super responsive car that is , at least in my mind, more than comfortable enough for DD. Moreover, and somewhat to my surprise, the thing feels pretty torquey around town, with its shorter ratios and free revving nature. It's almost like some track guys are bothered by the fact that the GT3 does provide a great experience off the track- ie as if that somehow would detract from its track credentials. Let's face it- Porsche has just mad a flat out brilliant driver's car here, that is an over-achiever both on and off the track!
