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With the successful test result on RB sintered pads by Ron who has been using CCM rotors for the past 5 years on tracks (including 997 GT3 before his ZR1), the CCM rotor with the right pad is proven to be the most cost effective, a fade free and confidence inspiring set up than conventional iron brakes.
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Hi Guys, just another quick update on the new Racing Brake sintered pads after running the 5 mile a few weeks ago. I had the opportunity to pull the pads and rotors to inspect them and I was quite impressed with the results after hammering on them for a full day of 5x 30 minute sessions on the 5 mile and about a half day on the 3 mile. Upon pulling the pads and inspecting them wear was even and consistent across all of the pads and the pad surface did not display any cracking or fracturing of the pad material indicating that the material was well within it's operating temperature range.
And another view:
There is a little bit of pad material covering the molding gaps but that is nothing to be concerned about as it's simply a thin layer of the lower melting point metals in the pad.
Looking at the front rotors it was evident that the pads had laid down a good transfer layer on the rotor surface as can be seen here:
This is important again because with the CCM rotor surface being near diamond hard the pads have to work through adhesive friction meaning that the pad will generate friction by rubbing against a layer of identical pad material applied to the rotor surface.
The rear rotors also displayed a good pad transfer layer as can be seen here:
So in total I was extremely pleased with the transfer layer applied to the rotor surfaces! This also protects the rotor surface and indicates that the pads are going to be gentle on the rotors.
I measured pad wear after the events and I had 2mm of wear on the front pads. Considering that this includes a half day on the 3 mile and a full day running on the 5 mile track where you have something like 25 corners including 1 where I'm slowing from nearly 150mph and 3 where I'm slowing from roughly 130mph per lap, that indicates that pad life is going to be really good with these new pads from Racing Brake! As I mentioned in my previous review initial bite with these pads was the best that I have felt to date, modulation was awesome and maximum braking force was again the best that I have felt so all in all I think that we have a winner!
Chopped-Fibre is the standard material used in the construction of the CSiC d iscs found on many high performance vehicles, such as Ferrari, Porsche and Aston Martin. This material consists of carbon-fibre cut into short strands and mixed with a resin.
Continuous fibre material is made from layers of Poly-Acrylic Nitrile (PAN) cloth, a carbon-fibre pre-cursor, that are laid over each other (typically in a 0°/90° layup) and needled together to produce a matrix structure. The final product generated by each process are similar, however the Continuous Fibre material benefits from higher strength and significantly higher thermal conductivity.
The thermal conductivity of ST's high conductivity material is typically 3 times that of the chopped fibre material. The manufacturing process of continuous fibre is also more suited to small volume or niche vehicle applications as the parts are machined as opposed to Chopped Fibre discs that are moulded. This results in minimal tooling costs and greater flexibility in production.
OP, I'm interested in your interpretation of your Corvette rotors after your "hard" track day comprising 5x30 minute sessions.
The wear patterns intrigues me. You mention there's a "nice layer of transfer material" when I see clear, concentric rings representing different degrees of use/wear. In particular, the first pic has a rotor which exhibits (i) variations in surface color (ii) concentric scoring and (iii) pock-marks representative of (early stage) wear...
I'm also scratching my head as to the scoring marks on your pads. Did this corvette go off track at some point and had pebbles lodged inside the caliper?
Below are two pics of what I would consider a "layer of transfer material". Enough pad materials have been transferred to the rotor surface at this point, that the rotor resembles an even mirror shine. Obviously there are excessive pad deposits in the rotor drill holes, but the point of the example is to highlight the stark visual difference between my rotors and yours.
I very much wish you are correct in your sales pitch--I've gone thru 3 sets of OEM PCCBs in my 7.2 and have a fourth set of PCCBs on the incoming 1RS. If you have a better rotor solution I really would be inclined to try it out.
OP, I'm interested in your interpretation of your Corvette rotors after your "hard" track day comprising 5x30 minute sessions.
The wear patterns intrigues me. You mention there's a "nice layer of transfer material" when I see clear, concentric rings representing different degrees of use/wear. In particular, the first pic has a rotor which exhibits (i) variations in surface color (ii) concentric scoring and (iii) pock-marks representative of (early stage) wear...
I'm also scratching my head as to the scoring marks on your pads. Did this corvette go off track at some point and had pebbles lodged inside the caliper?
Below are two pics of what I would consider a "layer of transfer material". Enough pad materials have been transferred to the rotor surface at this point, that the rotor resembles an even mirror shine. Obviously there are excessive pad deposits in the rotor drill holes, but the point of the example is to highlight the stark visual difference between my rotors and yours.
I very much wish you are correct in your sales pitch--I've gone thru 3 sets of OEM PCCBs in my 7.2 and have a fourth set of PCCBs on the incoming 1RS. If you have a better rotor solution I really would be inclined to try it out.
CREX, allow me to respond as the photo's that Racing Brake posted are of rotors on my car after doing testing. To give you some background the car is a Katech built Z06 with full aero, moton suspension and an RHS block based N/A race engine producing a little over 630 rwhp.
When comparing photo's of transfer layers between the Vette CCM rotors and those on your Porsche a few things need to be facotred in.
First the rotor are different between the two. Both are made through the use of chopped fibers but your PCB's have a final ceramic coating applied to the surface giving it a smooth, shiney appearance. Corvette CCM rotors does not have that. So our rotors have exposed carbon fibre strands on the surface that when they oxidize they leave voids, hence the rougher look of the rotors in the picture. Even still though you will notice for that there is a fairly thick transfer layer applied to the rotor that partially filled those voids.
Second you have to facter in pad material, you are running (I'm guessing) traditional semi-metalic pads which combined with the ceramic surface coating of your SGL rotors will result in the finish that you mentioned. The Racing Brake pads that I have been working with them to test are Sintered pads. So a completely different type of material, able to support much higher temperatures and providing significantly more initial bite and producing a significantly more overal braking force than any of the semi-metalic pads that I have tested from Pagid, Endless, Texstar etc. That combined with the rotor surface finish of our Brembo built rotors (I mention this because although Brembo and SGL are the same, their 2 facilities manufacture rotors in slightly different methods) lacking the ceramic surface coating (making for a more abrasive finish) is the reason that the pictures appear the way they do, not because I ran into a gravel trap lol.
Hope this helps clarify things a little. I'm sure Warren will touch on the difference in pads construction etc. but if you have any questions please feel free to ask.
One of the advantages on CCM rotors, aside from being better in thermal characteristics, is that the disc is refurbish-able and the cost is lower than a comparable iron disc.
We recently helped a GT-R customer have his car set of ST CCM discs refurbished.
Turn around time is about 4-5 weeks.
09/29/15 Discs shipped to ST
10/05/15 Received by ST
10/28/15 Refurbishing complete, return to RB
11/02/15 Received by RB
1 week to ST in UK
2-3 weeks for order processing
1 week to our facility in CA
The refurbishing cost is $450/rotor less shipping charge, which is about $96/rotor for a round trip or a total of $546/rotor.
For customers who purchase CCM rotors from us, we will waive handling and service charge for inspection, cleaning rotor hats, dis-assembly before we send to ST and re-assembly after returned from ST. Damaged hardware will also get replaced all these are performed at no extra charge.
Damaged mounting hole replaced with RB new hardware:
Original AP hardware and "coned" flat washer:
RB specially tooled hardware with wide and never "coned" flange bolt with Allen hex for easy assembly, low profile self-locking hex nut to provide positive and consistent torque at any temperature. Hardware are heat treated and dacrotized for corrosion resistant.
Last edited by RacingBrake; 11-13-2015 at 08:57 AM.
CCM rotor refurbishment is a combination of both mechanical and chemical processes.
This processes involves removing the damaged (typically oxidised) surface and rebuild with a protective new surface layer.
There is a limit to the number of times any disc can be refurbished, which is dictated by the minimum thickness at the end of the process.
The worse/deeper the damage to the disc, and hence the deeper the repair, then this will adversely affect the number of times the discs may be refurbished.
A refurbished disc will have the same ‘life expectancy’ and performance as the original disc.
All discs are checked on receipt to confirm if they are suitable for refurbishment.
Rotor hats are checked for conformance and replaced if necessary before assembly. Quality is assured before they are returned to customer.
As long as the disc is not over-used, refurbishing can indeed be cheaper than replacing an iron rotor ring. A spare set of iron rotor is a good idea to alternate the service and as a back up when CCM rotors are being refurbished.
07-17-2015, 03:08 PM
