Stop Sale?
06-08-2014 | 08:47 AM
#5071
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 233
Likes: 2
From: Close to P-Town
I am not pissed, Peter. 
But my head is hurting a bit.
I just seems rather odd (and a stupid marketing faux pas on the part of PAG) that German gt3's will be treated in a preferential way at Zuffenhausen and everybody else ROW gets just an engine exchange at a dreary port or at a local dealership!
If true what you were told about German gt3's going 'back to the assembly line' and 'getting new rear axles', it would constitute an unequal treatment of Cat A 'stakeholders'! And that goes against the goals of the gt3 Worldwide Action Group which sought fair & equal treatment across regions and markets. The last thing the disgruntled US/Candada 991 gt3 customers need to hear right now is the 'special' treatment for those gt3 owners in the Fatherland. It would reinforced their general feeling of distrust and negativity towards PAG and how they are handling this 'stop sale'! So it is very counter-productive, in my humble opinion.
Thank you for your prompt response and please keep us posted as to what factual reports you get re: the assembly line and the new rear axles (if any of this turns out to be true)!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
But my head is hurting a bit.I just seems rather odd (and a stupid marketing faux pas on the part of PAG) that German gt3's will be treated in a preferential way at Zuffenhausen and everybody else ROW gets just an engine exchange at a dreary port or at a local dealership!
If true what you were told about German gt3's going 'back to the assembly line' and 'getting new rear axles', it would constitute an unequal treatment of Cat A 'stakeholders'! And that goes against the goals of the gt3 Worldwide Action Group which sought fair & equal treatment across regions and markets. The last thing the disgruntled US/Candada 991 gt3 customers need to hear right now is the 'special' treatment for those gt3 owners in the Fatherland. It would reinforced their general feeling of distrust and negativity towards PAG and how they are handling this 'stop sale'! So it is very counter-productive, in my humble opinion.
Thank you for your prompt response and please keep us posted as to what factual reports you get re: the assembly line and the new rear axles (if any of this turns out to be true)!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Sorry for late reply and thanks also to Macca for his - as always - very helpful comments. I should have probably not broadcasted this rumour! Do not want
to hurt your head even more Eduardo - so, sorry about this. I had no chance to talk to my dealer/his after sales manager again about this subject and it is always questionable if truth be told (by PAG I mean). Information could only be trusted when someone would have seen with his own eyes ....
Probably we never find out!
Anyhow, the procedures seem to be quite different for different regions anyhow. In the US most cars will be returned to some centralized places for the swaps. In other countries dealers take care of the swap and in Germany the cars are returned to PAG. Probably a multitude of reasons why it is done like this. After all this is something very unusual and the procedures had to be organized "over night" so some "chaos" possibly could not have been avoided.
And now - sorry to add insult to injury (
) - more rumors in Germany are saying that the problem is still not fully understood. It was even said that time over 8500 rpm is limited but this was never confirmed. This is from a German forum called "PFF" (I think Macca is also looking into this once a while) but I have to admit that the competence is rahter limited at PFF even so you should not underestimate the fact that in Germany many forum members do work close to or actually at suppliers for PAG or ar in the auto industrie in general and such are much closer to the "action" compared to other countries. Some even maybe insiders but obviously limited in what the "officially" can say. Actually I was also meeting a guy from PAG QA department by chance and also got some - lets call it "not so encouraging information" but it simply can't be shared ....Despite all this negative rumors I did not walk. Actually I canceld my order because my built was delayed to October but instead I got a car which was on stock at my dealer and which now is in at Zuffenhausen for the engine swap and is supposed to be back end of June (cross your fingers for me!!!).
Why do I take the risk? I WANT THIS CAR! And we have 3 years of warranty now in Germany and I still have not lost (all of) my faith in PAG (I am also a German engineer
). And finally: a lot of internet rumors a plain bull?hit.And also (as a cat C guy) I was offered 1500 Euro per month as compensation starting after the originally planned delivery month.
I know for sure that others here in Germany got different solutions/compensations (e.g Turbo as a loaner etc.) so also this is very inconsistend even within one country ....
So and now lets wait and hope for the best and keep the good spirit up!
Saludos again - Eduardo
Peter
06-08-2014 | 11:59 AM
#5072
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11,309
Likes: 1,507
From: Midwest
Peterfirst - are you saying that PAG still may not of fixed a problem that they still do not understand with this engine??. I am interested in what rumors you are hearing. Being they are rumors should not make it too hard to share.
The good thing is if one or two people who have had their engines replaced have issues I am "out" quicker than you can say "recall" again.
The good thing is if one or two people who have had their engines replaced have issues I am "out" quicker than you can say "recall" again.
06-08-2014 | 12:56 PM
#5073
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 233
Likes: 2
From: Close to P-Town
Peterfirst - are you saying that PAG still may not of fixed a problem that they still do not understand with this engine??. I am interested in what rumors you are hearing. Being they are rumors should not make it too hard to share.
The good thing is if one or two people who have had their engines replaced have issues I am "out" quicker than you can say "recall" again.
The good thing is if one or two people who have had their engines replaced have issues I am "out" quicker than you can say "recall" again.
Well the rumors flying around are that they (still) have vibration issues with the engine. True or not - tough to say. Also it seems that issues have been known before first delivery started.
I do not want to support you "on the way out" because my gut feeling is, that the car is worth "some trouble" and I still do believe in the product.
At one point in all the proceedings I also started to get "dead cold" against the GT3 and was very close to walk. But then I got the opportunity to see one (a black one and it looked totally stunning inside and out) and even better I had the chance to buy it on the spot and was promised to have it within end of June - I just could NOT resist!
And I have driven the 991GT3 only for one hour last October (test drive at my dealer) but that was enough to totally get me hooked!
Two years ago I still had a 997GT3RS.2. Motor was a nearly total loss after cam shaft adjuster decided to let some screws go. Was repaired under warranty (cost was close to 30 k Euro). After that it never missed a beat.
So I just think these cars (actually every car) can have some issues and also the new GT3 motor (call it seceond gen) will have some failures but I do not think this would justify to walk. And with the extended warranty I think we are covered anyhow - so for me no need to (really) worry and I will use the car quite often on track but also as a DD.
So I hope you positive excitement towards the GT3 will come back once you see it or even better drive it!
I fully agree that PAG did not show the best perfomance and the handling of this subject (communciation etc.) but bear in mind that this is truly an exceptional situation...
Keep the faith up!
Peter
06-08-2014 | 01:37 PM
#5075
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,955
Likes: 113
Hi Eduardo - or better Saludos!
Sorry for late reply and thanks also to Macca for his - as always - very helpful comments. I should have probably not broadcasted this rumour! Do not want
to hurt your head even more Eduardo - so, sorry about this. I had no chance to talk to my dealer/his after sales manager again about this subject and it is always questionable if truth be told (by PAG I mean). Information could only be trusted when someone would have seen with his own eyes ....
Probably we never find out!
Anyhow, the procedures seem to be quite different for different regions anyhow. In the US most cars will be returned to some centralized places for the swaps. In other countries dealers take care of the swap and in Germany the cars are returned to PAG. Probably a multitude of reasons why it is done like this. After all this is something very unusual and the procedures had to be organized "over night" so some "chaos" possibly could not have been avoided.
And now - sorry to add insult to injury () - more rumors in Germany are saying that the problem is still not fully understood. It was even said that time over 8500 rpm is limited but this was never confirmed. This is from a German forum called "PFF" (I think Macca is also looking into this once a while) but I have to admit that the competence is rahter limited at PFF even so you should not underestimate the fact that in Germany many forum members do work close to or actually at suppliers for PAG or ar in the auto industrie in general and such are much closer to the "action" compared to other countries. Some even maybe insiders but obviously limited in what the "officially" can say. Actually I was also meeting a guy from PAG QA department by chance and also got some - lets call it "not so encouraging information" but it simply can't be shared ....
Despite all this negative rumors I did not walk. Actually I canceld my order because my built was delayed to October but instead I got a car which was on stock at my dealer and which now is in at Zuffenhausen for the engine swap and is supposed to be back end of June (cross your fingers for me!!!).
Why do I take the risk? I WANT THIS CAR! And we have 3 years of warranty now in Germany and I still have not lost (all of) my faith in PAG (I am also a German engineer). And finally: a lot of internet rumors a plain bull?hit.
And also (as a cat C guy) I was offered 1500 Euro per month as compensation starting after the originally planned delivery month.
I know for sure that others here in Germany got different solutions/compensations (e.g Turbo as a loaner etc.) so also this is very inconsistend even within one country ....
So and now lets wait and hope for the best and keep the good spirit up!
Saludos again - Eduardo
Peter
Sorry for late reply and thanks also to Macca for his - as always - very helpful comments. I should have probably not broadcasted this rumour! Do not want
to hurt your head even more Eduardo - so, sorry about this. I had no chance to talk to my dealer/his after sales manager again about this subject and it is always questionable if truth be told (by PAG I mean). Information could only be trusted when someone would have seen with his own eyes ....
Probably we never find out!
Anyhow, the procedures seem to be quite different for different regions anyhow. In the US most cars will be returned to some centralized places for the swaps. In other countries dealers take care of the swap and in Germany the cars are returned to PAG. Probably a multitude of reasons why it is done like this. After all this is something very unusual and the procedures had to be organized "over night" so some "chaos" possibly could not have been avoided.
And now - sorry to add insult to injury (
) - more rumors in Germany are saying that the problem is still not fully understood. It was even said that time over 8500 rpm is limited but this was never confirmed. This is from a German forum called "PFF" (I think Macca is also looking into this once a while) but I have to admit that the competence is rahter limited at PFF even so you should not underestimate the fact that in Germany many forum members do work close to or actually at suppliers for PAG or ar in the auto industrie in general and such are much closer to the "action" compared to other countries. Some even maybe insiders but obviously limited in what the "officially" can say. Actually I was also meeting a guy from PAG QA department by chance and also got some - lets call it "not so encouraging information" but it simply can't be shared ....Despite all this negative rumors I did not walk. Actually I canceld my order because my built was delayed to October but instead I got a car which was on stock at my dealer and which now is in at Zuffenhausen for the engine swap and is supposed to be back end of June (cross your fingers for me!!!).
Why do I take the risk? I WANT THIS CAR! And we have 3 years of warranty now in Germany and I still have not lost (all of) my faith in PAG (I am also a German engineer
). And finally: a lot of internet rumors a plain bull?hit.And also (as a cat C guy) I was offered 1500 Euro per month as compensation starting after the originally planned delivery month.
I know for sure that others here in Germany got different solutions/compensations (e.g Turbo as a loaner etc.) so also this is very inconsistend even within one country ....
So and now lets wait and hope for the best and keep the good spirit up!
Saludos again - Eduardo
Peter
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
06-08-2014 | 02:16 PM
#5076
Racer
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 396
Likes: 1
From: Bethlehem PA
Cat A owners rode their cars hard before the Stop Sale .... would ride them hard again. If a few engines fail over the next some years, you'll get a new engine under warranty ... free "rebuilt" engine.
Enjoy the GT3! I sure will ....
06-08-2014 | 02:23 PM
#5077
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
From: las vegas nv
Human nature dictates you will be bias'd to rumors supporting your decision. 'Guilty as Charged' . they are all valid opinions --Maybe we need a thread --
"I Walked-- So please find negative info about the car so I feel better about my decision"
I don't blame you, as your going to be depressed when you see these back on the road. You can hear the 9000 a block away.. LOL
"I Walked-- So please find negative info about the car so I feel better about my decision"
I don't blame you, as your going to be depressed when you see these back on the road. You can hear the 9000 a block away.. LOL
06-08-2014 | 02:34 PM
#5078
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11,309
Likes: 1,507
From: Midwest
Whether I take this car or not I do find it hard to fathom that after all this Porsche would knowingly replace an engine that they still had questions on. I am going to go under the assumption they have replaced the engines with an equal to better engine and that is up to par with the other variants. I have always said from the beginning that I will wait and see how these new engines play out. I am really looking forward to reviews from these replace engines as soon as some of those who frequent this forum can start posting
06-08-2014 | 02:38 PM
#5079
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,851
Likes: 231
From: La Jolla
06-08-2014 | 02:55 PM
#5081
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,129
Likes: 280
From: North Bay Area, CA
Thanks for your input Peterfirst.
One comment on the "limited time over 8500 RPM" rumor. Unless this is officially communicated to owners by Porsche I don't see how it can possibly be true. First of all, how would it be monitored? A timed limit in the ECU? The honor system?
The only thing that would prove this rumor for me is if Porsche comes clean and tells us. If they don't, either at some point owners will begin straggling in complaining that their engine will no longer pull to redline because the rev limit has timed out, or there is a heightened risk of future failures. Hard to imagine Porsche wants to replay any part of this drama.
One comment on the "limited time over 8500 RPM" rumor. Unless this is officially communicated to owners by Porsche I don't see how it can possibly be true. First of all, how would it be monitored? A timed limit in the ECU? The honor system?
The only thing that would prove this rumor for me is if Porsche comes clean and tells us. If they don't, either at some point owners will begin straggling in complaining that their engine will no longer pull to redline because the rev limit has timed out, or there is a heightened risk of future failures. Hard to imagine Porsche wants to replay any part of this drama.
06-08-2014 | 03:22 PM
#5082
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 233
Likes: 2
From: Close to P-Town
Thanks for your input Peterfirst.
One comment on the "limited time over 8500 RPM" rumor. Unless this is officially communicated to owners by Porsche I don't see how it can possibly be true. First of all, how would it be monitored? A timed limit in the ECU? The honor system?
The only thing that would prove this rumor for me is if Porsche comes clean and tells us. If they don't, either at some point owners will begin straggling in complaining that their engine will no longer pull to redline because the rev limit has timed out, or there is a heightened risk of future failures. Hard to imagine Porsche wants to replay any part of this drama.
One comment on the "limited time over 8500 RPM" rumor. Unless this is officially communicated to owners by Porsche I don't see how it can possibly be true. First of all, how would it be monitored? A timed limit in the ECU? The honor system?
The only thing that would prove this rumor for me is if Porsche comes clean and tells us. If they don't, either at some point owners will begin straggling in complaining that their engine will no longer pull to redline because the rev limit has timed out, or there is a heightened risk of future failures. Hard to imagine Porsche wants to replay any part of this drama.
I actually do not think it is true. Some owners in Germany already having the car back. None of them confirmed that this is true. But think about it how you drive the car! On the street: will you stay at 9000 rpm for a prolonged period of time? Don't think so. On the track? No, you will upshift because that is the only way to be fast ....
So - don't worry about this. First I bet it is not true, second I think it has no real relevance.
So relax, sit back and hopefully you/we will have the car soon.
Oh by the way, one guy from Germany (who was always fighting again the nay-sayers) was on track and car performed as it should - glorious
Have a nice Sunday
Peter
06-08-2014 | 05:17 PM
#5085
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 233
Likes: 2
From: Close to P-Town
Exact my own experience!
The big unnerving thing about the 991GT3 is from my point of view the uncertainty - the wait - the don't know when and what. Other than that, I can handle the idea of a “not perfect” engine because there always will be a fix …
@ Mike: cheers mate
Peter