Petevb

The thing is, Porsche seems to have stopped building "scary" cars. The Carrera GT was a very pure car, and a real handful for any skill level to use fully, and it took decent skill even to tootle around it. However I think top management feels like it backfired- there were picket lines outside of Porsche dealers if you can believe that!

Even before Paul Walker's death I believe there was a conscious effort to make the current generation of top sports cars more friendly to the skill level of Porsche's average customer. The 918 and the GT3 are the result, cars that are an order of magnitude more accessible to someone with average skill than their predecessors. These cars have generally been very well received, but this begs the question: are we ever going to see cars like the GT2 RS and Carrera GT again from Porsche, cars that require serious skill to get the most out of.

Technically it'd be dead easy for Porsche to get 650, 700 or even more power from their engines. Politically, however, it may well now be impossible. I know of at least one hardcore, true enthusiast's Porsche that was recently proposed- it died in the boardroom. It makes me wonder if we've already seen the last "professional grade" cars from Porsche. Is it consumer grade from now on?

Macca

This is 100% correct. The measurement is industry standard and hasnt changed for PAG in over a decade.

karimgt3

I think that the RS was never a car that was meant to be compared to lambos, r8s, ferraris or whatever IN TERMS OF POWER OUTPUT FIGURES.

In 2010-11, the 997.2 gt3rs had 450hp, whereas the superlegerra at that time had 570, the 458italia 560hp(?), the r8 v10 520hp.. But no one was complaining back then..

Same thing with the 991 RS now..

I think that it's the 991 Turbo that is facing the problem of low hp figures now that the other competitors are up in the 600s..

Just my +1

Macca

Peter. I agree with you 100%. But its been happening with the RS since the 996 GT3RS, the GT2 since the 993GT2 etc. Unfortunately te writings been on the wall all these years and the penny for most of us has been slow to drop...

GoHardGT3RS

You are right, but now the gap to the 488 GTB or others is about 170 hp and no longer in the range of 70-110 hp as in the past... too much IMO.

NateOZ

I just noticed a mistake in my post when I said the 3,300 lbs was with LWBs - it was with 18-ways.

If you assume the 3153 is with a full 16.9 gallon tank + 43 lbs for full 23.7 gallon tank = 3,196 lbs (assumes tank size change weighs 0).

I think a street weight of 3,300 lbs wet with a full tank probably makes sense as seats and lift etc could easily get to 100 lbs. I still wish Porsche would give you an actual dry-weight rather than modifying the wet weight with the small gas tank.

Macca

Again spot on. This car was signed off around Dec 2013 in pretty much 99% of the spec and trim you see it today.

So the car is a year late and the rivals have had a head start. It wont be an issue. This car will punch above its weight!

A UK 991 GT3 owner who is a friend just got offered 150K GBP for his 991 GT3. Its done around 5000 miles now and is almost a year old. The prices there are nuts. That was net price in his hand from a dealer for a car he paid around 109K GBP for optioned up IIRC. I asked him if he was tempted after all thats a great profit on a car hes been using almost daily and had some enjoyment from. He said to me "Ive thought about it but honestly what would I buy for 150K GBP new that had anywhere near the poise, handling, performance, flexibility and usability of the 991 GT3?". You know what? He is right even 2 years on from Launch in march 2013 what new car can take its place for the same or even 50% more money? The only car is the 991 GT3RS but in the UK thouse will be twice as rare as teh 991 GT3 and selll 50K GBP over list from the day they arrive so thats not really an answer either.

His view? That the 991 GT3 will continute to appreciate in the UK until its within 20K GBP of a used 458 Speciale! I think he may even be right! Thats 200K GBP by the way. Dealers currently asking 160s K for used 991 Gt3 after all.

Begs teh question if this is happening with 991 Gt3 in some markets what about the 991 GT3RS? Lets face it whats going to be better in teh next few years for anywhere near the list price? Nothing. Event at twice tat price - very little.

My guess is PAG will compensate the late 991 gT3RS by keeping the price a little more competitive in the US market than they would have done a year ago which is no bad thing. Plus in the US you dont get the 10K of goodies like cage and clubsport gear as standard spec.

All speculation but these are first world problems. Im living in Mexico at the moment. There are people here who cant afford a roof over their heads....we are spoilt!

Selvatico

I bet that officially or not (we will see) this car will get at least 520 hp when dynoed.Many regular Gt3 are already close to 500 from what I remember..To me these numbers and the NA engine are still good enought reasons to own one asap.The long wait is creating some sort of delirium here and in many similar Forums..:-) Everything will stop as soon as you will see the first pics I am sure:-))

karimgt3

U've seen the car so i'm trusting you!! Hahaha

karimgt3

Yes maybe.. Let's hope for a suprise at geneva

Selvatico

it is incredible...I continue to think to what I have seen trying to remember all details...30 times a day!!I am lost!!
Last my report was missing by one detail..There were no those two (R+L) little curved baffles in the front bumper.The ones typical of the Rs4.0.Sorry but I don't remember the English name..

Petevb

I don't know that I fully agree. The CGT in 2005 was as scary a bastard as Porsche has ever unleashed on the road in my opinion. If I go back to a 993 RS, was it really much harder to drive than a GT3 RS 4.0 sixteen years later? I don't think so. Slip angle is down on the 4.0, sure, but speeds are also up to counter this. Overall I wouldn't say one was significantly easier to get the most out of than the other. The 964 RS to 993 RS is a different story- there we saw a step change.

I think we've just seen another, even larger step change with the latest generation of top cars from Porsche. The 991 GT3 is a car everyone can go fast in instantly:
The 991 GT3 was one of the easiest car to drive fast out of a group test of 14 cars. And that's the most driver's focused car Porsche currently sells. Can you imagine saying that about a Carrera GT, or a GT2 RS? Not even close- they'd be among the hardest. We've just witnessed the passing of an era: Porsche no longer build professional grade cars. Not because of the engine or parts sharing, but because of the philosophy. Before they used chassis improvements as a way to add power, but if they're not building a GT2 that's clearly no longer the case. And the fear is they won't ever be the case again.

The GT4 is a car for the purist to some extent sure, but is it a hardcore drivers car? A car for a pro? No... It seems like Porsche built those cars just yesterday, but they don't any more. And they've applied professional grade encryption to their ECUs to make sure we can't build them either!

The writing might well be on the wall. Doesn't mean I like it. At all.

markow

macca,
the UK market suffers under the law of small (delivery) numbers (bun intended with the law of large numbers in probability theory:)). what you observe there is like advertising to sell 300 marshmallows to 60mio people. you will always find some nut-case paying 1000 quid for a marshmallow without even knowing what it is.
and it doesn't mean that marshmallows are any good....
peter

karimgt3

You're making the wait even worse!!

Yes i think you mean the front air splitters. Maybe It's an option?

All the test mules in the nurburgring videos had the front splitters on them, but on the other hand, the front fenders inlets were closed! Maybe they both have the same effect at the end?

Karim

jumpstone

:-) so far i can confirm that the german dealers have no previews like the italian which i dont understand at all! I am one of the best customers here in a big german city with ie current turbo s and now having an option on the gt3rs! They dont know anything about specs but know that production starts soon, they get 5 allications for larger porsche dealers and smaller 2-3! They say the time is very short that car will be built so naturally the numbers being built will be low too! They even cant confirm geneva so far and i know several dealers and also people in marketing at p. Ag! What i dont understand is that the italians (def not the most important market compared to us, uae, saudi, russia, germany) have so many information! Its hard to believe honestly! Thats what i know - i will go to geneva anWays on the 5. march and than we will see! Cheers