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I have a scary feeling that Porsche will annouce that the 991RS is the last normally aspirated GT3 they will produce..... Which means you almost have to get one....
Same to you Daniel and Feliz Año Nuevo to all other Rennlisters on this forum!
Originally Posted by bronson7
Great work <3mph, interesting info. I'm sure Eduardo will chime in with some more developing info.
Good job indeed Daniel!
Originally Posted by <3mph
Thanks, I purposely planted references to Eduardo in my post, hoping the same thing!
I have been recuperating from a New Year's 'Progressive Dinner' that kept my wife & I up until 4 AM! So I am a bit slow going this day!
Originally Posted by <3mph
I was wasting time looking at paint colour formulae on the Glasurit website. No good reason, other than being a PTS customer, I was hoping to learn more about paint. I understand that Porsche uses this company for its paint. Perhaps someone can elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, here is the rub. The current (and only) automotive paint supplier to Porsche is DuPont*. Glasurit has been a paint supplier to Porsche in the past, dating back to 356 & early 911 era. But DuPont is the current supplier of paint at Porsche, as when I last talked to Sasha Glaeser, past manager of 'Porsche Exclusive' in the US. I believe the 'Glasurit' website has information on current & past Porsche colors simply to provide info & ordering information for the 'collision repair centers' of the world. That is a large portion of Glasurit paint business today - repairs/aftermarket! Glasurit is now owned by BASF. The latter has the smallest market share of the OEM automotive car paints in the world - PPG & DuPont dominate with 80% market share!
*Interestingly, DuPont sold this 'slow growing business' to the private Carlyle Group in 2013 for US$4.9 billion. The new company is called 'Axalta Coating Systems' and is based in Pennsylvania.
Originally Posted by <3mph
Just a note, they list a lot of different codes for the same colours. For example, just as Eduardo has brought to our attention, there are many codes for Signal Green: 078, 217, 22S, 6828, 7810 (for targa), and 7878 (for coupe). But strangely enough, W25 (MY2007/08 PTS 997 only) does not appear. I'm not entirely sure why, but perhaps it was a one off paint formula that the factory made (???) and not one cataloged by Glasurit. Below is the photo that Eduardo posted of the colour samples for Signal Green (and a couple other greens for comparison).
If 'Glasurit' missed the W25 version of 'Signal Green' in their website, this tells me that even back in 2006/2007 they were not the official paint supplier to Porsche. I owned a MY2007 Carrera S coupe in this wonderful hue (W25) and it was a very limited PTS run of just a few .1 997's.
Originally Posted by <3mph
Anyway, I was looking up my own colour code (Modegrau 61H, used since 1992) and discovered another colour code (Modegrau 531) which was used for the 1950-53 cars. Interestingly, neither is grouped under 911 model (I guess they're technically 356 colours). And also, for some reason, the colour formulae are also different. Since I don't know how to interpret the formula or translate it into a colour in my head, I can only guess that the colours produced by these different formulae result in slightly different colours. And I must assume that this means that the current modegrau differs slightly from the original version. From photos I've seen, the old pre A 356s seem slightly darker to me than the more current PTS cars painted in this same colour. So perhaps there is a real difference? Not sure why this change, but perhaps the current formula was PTS based on a colour sample sent to the factory, but not completely comparable to the original? That would be a bit unusual given that the original formula exists and there are presumably experts out there (Paterek, etc) who could have access to accurate samples with original paint.
Daniel: Photos don't represent an actual portrayal of the true color. Light, lenses, filters make a difference. And in the case of 'ModeGrau' from the early 1950's, most period color photos are 'faded' and so are most samples of original paint on some of these rare cars! Remember too that the Pre-A paints were nitrocellulose lacquer and the 356A paints (post MY1956) were the more 'modern' acrylic enamel. Later Porsche went to into Urethane paints and switched from oil-based (solventborne) to water-based (waterborne) epoxy-based electrocoat systems. So it would not surprise me if paint manufacturers (like Glasurit) changed some of the formulas to get to the same approximate color used for their original lacquer paints, such as 'ModeGrau'.
Originally Posted by <3mph
This is in contrast to Gulfblau, where there are several different codes, but 328 (currently on the PTS list) and all the others (036, 3636, 6010, 6060) all use identical formulae, at least on the Glasurit site. (Conekilr, that means your particular version of Gulf Blue should be a perfect colour match to all the other correct Gulfblau cars out there!!)
For an interesting discussion on automotive paint in restorations and repairs, here is a link from Hemmings that I recommend:
Second, and the reason I'm posting this on the RS thread, is that I've found a new orange 911 colour that I had not heard of (in addition to Blutorange and other orange colours). It's called Lavaorange (M2A) and is listed as current from 2013. Lava orange does not come up on a google search. And it does not appear on the current PTS list. Is this possibly the new RS colour? There have been rumours of a "java orange" and perhaps this is it!
I personally don't believe that 'Lava Orange' is the new 991 gt3 RS color. I am still hoping that it will be 'Tangerine/BlutOrange', color code 018. I have included a photo (attachment #1) that appears on an old Rennlist thread by Rennlister 'Wachuko' which shows the variations of some of the more famous Porsche 'orange' colors!
Originally Posted by <3mph
Does this mean that there may be a blue colour coming on the RS?? We've heard rumours of a purple, but unfortunately I didn't see any others that might qualify as purple. So perhaps the Miami blue will have a purple hue to it?!!
It will not be 'Miami Blau' on the MY2015 gt3 RS! I also don't see Porsche offering Matte/Satin finishes on this 'track-oriented' car. Porsche has yet to follow the 'fad' of Matte/Satin finishes for any of its models...and I doubt they'll start experimenting with this unique finish on the MY2015 gt3 RS. But we'll find out soon enough.
Originally Posted by Ronan
Given the apparently short run of RS, is there any sense that there will be a PTS option?....my dealer was very doubtful.
Below is a recent response (Dec 29th) where I attempted to give an insight into this important question on PTS for the MY2015 gt3 RS. See Post #7, also reproduced as an image captured at the bottom:
Eduardo, you're the voice of reason. And, wow, your knowledge of all this stuff is mind-blowingly impressive!! Thanks for the commentary. After reading your responses, I have a lot more questions that I'm hoping you can help with.
Originally Posted by Z356
Well, here is the rub. The current (and only) automotive paint supplier to Porsche is DuPont*. Glasurit has been a paint supplier to Porsche in the past, dating back to 356 & early 911 era.
Interesting. I'm still hoping that the Glasurit info is relevant. And I haven't found a similar site for DuPont that lets one browse their paint selection. Do you know of one?
Originally Posted by Z356
If 'Glasurit' missed the W25 version of 'Signal Green' in their website, this tells me that even back in 2006/2007 they were not the official paint supplier to Porsche. I owned a MY2007 Carrera S coupe in this wonderful hue (W25) and it was a very limited PTS run of just a few .1 997's.
Even if they weren't the official supplier, it is still curious that W25 does not exist on their website. Do you have any theories why this might be? They catalog other paint that was used on relatively few cars (eg. Kristalblau).
Originally Posted by Z356
So it would not surprise me if paint manufacturers (like Glasurit) changed some of the formulas to get to the same approximate color used for their original lacquer paints, such as 'ModeGrau'.
Ok, great. I'm hoping that my car arrives in as close a match as possible to the original 531 in appearance. I'm still not completely sure why some 1950-1953 colours (eg. Adriablau) use identical formulae in more recent times, while Modegrau does not. Perhaps it had to do with a constituent paint that is no longer useable and had to be changed, and this applies only to those colours using that constituent??
Originally Posted by Z356
For an interesting discussion on automotive paint in restorations and repairs, here is a link from Hemmings that I recommend:
Thanks for the link!
Originally Posted by Z356
I personally don't believe that 'Lava Orange' is the new 991 gt3 RS color. I am still hoping that it will be 'Tangerine/BlutOrange', color code 018.
Why don't you think it could be "Java/Lava orange"? Eduardo, do you recall another example where a historic colour was revived for non-PTS standard use in a newer model?
Originally Posted by Z356
It will not be 'Miami Blau' on the MY2015 gt3 RS! I also don't see Porsche offering Matte/Satin finishes on this 'track-oriented' car. Porsche has yet to follow the 'fad' of Matte/Satin finishes for any of its models...and I doubt they'll start experimenting with this unique finish on the MY2015 gt3 RS. But we'll find out soon enough.
Why do you state no Miamiblau so emphatically? I was really hoping there might be a really great blue for the RS. Plus the year listed by Glasurit seemed to fit with the timing of the 991 RS.
And agreed, to find a matte finish listed was also a surprise to me for a track car. It has the same code (OK1) as Oryx white pearl effect has. This may be a unique case where one paint code refers to two very different colours. Do you know more about the origins of Oryx? I recall from the prior thread https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...new-color.html that this was once seen on a Turbo. Was this a very special paint that was not attached to a particular model of car but could be ordered by paint cognoscenti? Perhaps the other matte and satin paints will also be unattached to any car in like manner and thus not be RS colours per se. IMO one notable thing about the "new" ones is that they appear starting in 2014, whereas Oryx is listed from 2010 onwards. So, in either case, it is a new colour to look out for, even if it may not show up on the RS.
Again, many thanks for your insights! I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
MiamiBlau how interesting!! But looks too light to hide yellowing clear bra's. So hard to judge colors on monitors!
I suspect that the Nachtblau is the one with the purple tint and interesting metallic flake..
Matte must be hard to keep nice on a track car either flat black or flat silver/white.
Maybe some of these codes are for the accents, like the crazy looking pure gold on the configurator back in 2010 on the RS that turned out to be almost silver in real life. It made me convert all red to gold on my first 997RS.
I'm hoping for a more orangey orange than the more red-ish blutorange. Shows off all the vents and holes and hides yellowing clear bra. For me they would be perfect to match the 997.1RS orange.
MiamiBlau too light? Nothing is worse than white for hiding yellowing clear bra…..
As for matte paint issues, not an expert but not sure all the scare mongering is entirely accurate. Buddy has a matte paint MB CLS and it seems to be holding up just fine; granted he doesn't track it.
Here's something that popped up on a quick search (the original post has a bunch of related hyperlinks):
"For all of you out there who own or are considering purchasing a new Mercedes with the Designo Magno matte finish, this should help to dispel some common misconceptions about matte paint that are frequently spread around the web. Below are the most common matte paint myths and what you really need to know...
MYTH #1: You can’t protect a matte paint finish.
Busted. While this may have been the case when matte paint first emerged into the automotive marketplace, it certainly is not the case today. At the same time, this myth does make sense if and only if the protection product uses fillers, silicones, or any type of wax. So what’s that mean? It means the only (effective) way to protect matte paint is with a liquid matte paint sealant specifically formulated not to increase the surface’s gloss rating.
MYTH #2: It’s hard to take care of a matte painted car.
The problem here is in the wording. If you consider taking care of a “regular” (non-matte) car hard, then sure, maintaining a matte car might be tough for you. Chances are if you’re on this blog you care about your car and how it looks, and with that said, chances are you understand where I’m coming from here. Taking care of a matte painted car is no more work that properly caring for a glossy car. By the way, the mere fact that you’ll never be polishing your matte car makes it that much easier to care for. Matte finishes are way less susceptible to clear coat scratches and swirl marks simply because the matte finish is non-reflective. If you know about the science of scratches, you also know that when there’s no light to reflect off a scratch the human eye has a hard time really seeing it. Myth tackled.
MYTH #3: Matte paint is just regular paint without a clear coat.
Absolutely not. In rare cases, maybe your aftermarket matte paint job has no clear coat, but if you get it from the factory it definitely will. In fact, it’s actually the clear coat that makes factory matte paint look flat with its microscopic imperfections and “dimples” (read more). If you got your car or motorcycle painted matte in a booth by a third-party, I recommend making sure they put on a matte clear coat over the pigment layer of paint. Without a clear coat your messing with fire.
MYTH #4: Dish soap is safe to use on matte paint.
Dish soap is formulated to do one thing (unless you use that brand that moisturizes your hands), and that thing is to strip grease and grime off of hard surfaces (ie. plates, glass, etc.). As you now know, you can most certainly protect matte paint – using dish soap to clean the car will weaken the bond of any sealant or substance on the painted surface of your car. So in a sense it may not do damage to the paint, but it’s certainly doing more than just cleaning it. Do yourself (and your matte finish) a favor and get a no-shine matte car wash soap that uses no fillers, no silicone, and won’t strip your matte paint of its layer of protection.
MYTH #5: Matte paint is super fragile and not at all durable.
Ehhh, not quite. Not sure where this one started from, but I guess everybody speculates on exotic items and that they aren’t built to last. Matte paint, if it’s from the manufacturer, is absolutely designed to last the entire life of the car. Going back to Myth #3, that’s why we put clear coat on our cars – longterm protection for the pigment layer of paint. Because most matte paint does in fact use a clear coat layer, the only thing you have to worry about is protecting that clear coat layer with a matte paint sealant.
MYTH #6: The dealership will know what to do.
If only I had a dime for every instance I’ve heard this one. Trust me, dealerships are good for just about one thing: selling you a car… and most of them are terrible at doing that. They did not manufacture your car, they are not related to the development company who created the paint, and they definitely don’t read the entire manual before telling you how many miles your car should go without an oil change. Leave the paint care to professionals who understand the science behind matte paint and not those who only get paid if and when you purchase the car from them. Face it, most dealerships are trained rigorously to learn how to say say, “yes” no matter the customer’s question. Think about it… does this model have ABS included? “Yes, for an extra $3,200.” You get my point.
Anyway, when all is said and done, if you’re lucky enough to own a matte car… it needs specific attention. There are things you should know and things you should avoid. There are secrets and tips, and believe me there are a whole bunch of knuckle heads online who’ll take any theory that pops in their head and post it to a forum as advice. The bottom line is trust the experts – that’s why we’re here. Whatever you're driving, we can help you care for it… just email myteam@drbeasleys.com, comment below, or ask us on facebook to get your answers straightened out once and for all."
MiamiBlau too light? Nothing is worse than white for hiding yellowing clear bra…..
Definitely not going white, that's for CUP car related cars and by now there are way too many White GT3's..
Not going black either.
So maybe blue, likely Orange and perhaps flat silver, but I did the flat white thing and got over it.
most intriguing is the dark blue/purple metallic rumor.
This time I'll fly to Geneva to see all colors because in 2010 the configurator colors screwed me up.
Definitely not going white, that's for CUP car related cars and by now there are way too many White GT3's..
Not going black either.
So maybe blue, likely Orange and perhaps flat silver, but I did the flat white thing and got over it.
most intriguing is the dark blue/purple metallic rumor.
This time I'll fly to Geneva to see all colors because in 2010 the configurator colors screwed me up.
I wonder if this rumored "Purpleish Blueish" color is the old 993 color Zenith Blue. It looked very purple in some light, and very blue in others. It was really a color that was best appreciated in person. Could look interesting on the 991 platform.
01-01-2015, 11:40 PM
No good reason, other than being a PTS customer, I was hoping to learn more about paint. I understand that Porsche uses this company for its paint. Perhaps someone can elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong.
