tubescreamerules

How could ferrari make those bucket seats in 458 or sepciale compliant with DOT regulation? They are offered on the whole range of current F-cars and they don't even come with integrated airbags. Once I heard ferrari got away with it because those seats are equiped in low production numbers cars, but now it doesn't make any sense coz they definitely gonna sell couple of thousand 458Sepciales, plus many 458/Cali/ff will be speced with those seats

hf1

Joe, have you installed the old Recaro (Euro 6GT3 buckets) seats in any 981/991 cars? I have an extra set which I had in my 987S Boxster and I wonder if they would fit if I got a 981/991.

Z356

frayed: I am a paid member of the RL 'conspiracy theories' sub-group. We meet every Wednesday night at a secret location in the internet. Let me know if you ever change your mind and want to join us. We all dressed up in 'black pajamas' and have lots of clean fun!

Regardless, I have now come to accept that there is indeed a regulatory change in US DOT guidelines that has prevented Porsche from offering the sport bucket seats in our market on all 991 & 981. Frankly, I was skeptical at the beginning and thought it was a back-handed way for Porsche to put an obstacle in the path of use of the gt3's for track events in our litigious society in the US.

My conspiracy theory went something like this. It was a way for Porsche to sort out the improved centerlock wheel system of the new 991 gt3, to make sure it worked as planned on the track, before allowing us to order track-ready sport bucket seats. In addition, the delay also insured that the 'catastrophic coolant hose coupling' failures were a thing of the past! According to my theory, by not providing sport bucket seats on the 991 gt3, it would be a pro-active legal defense of PAG & PCNA since it was giving a clear signal that this was strictly a street vehicle and not intended for track use, including even Driver Ed events!

But I have now come to believe that there is indeed a technical issue with the new US regulations which prevented Porsche from offering the sport buckets (even the 'old' gt2 type) in this market. The fact that they are having problems getting the variable height adjusted passenger bucket seat approved for their $845K (base) 918 Spyder made me realize that it's a real issue & not imaginary. I was fortunate to test drive a 918 'Weissach Package' at The Thermal last November and found out an interesting story regarding the seats on those cars.
Here is what I wrote on the Rennlist Supercar CGT & 918 forum on the subject:

"My friend Doug, who is having his 918 built next month and was very interested in having an electrically adjustable passenger seat on his 918, was very clear as to why this option is not yet offered in the US...'(Doug) has been told by Porsche that the reason is related to an air bag issue. For some reason, it doesn't yet meet US safety regulations.'

My own speculation on the subject, which I shared with others on that post, is worth perhaps repeating here: 'The drivers side sport bucket seat moves up & down. It has an incorporated side air bag to protect the 'thorax' part of the body. The left door has an airbag for the protection of the head. Finally, there is a frontal airbag on the hub part of the steering wheel. What is the difference on the passenger side that would prevent Porsche from offering an adjustable height seat on that location? The seat's thorax air bag moves up & down with the seat, so that should not be the problem. The door mounted airbag covers the head on side impacts. There should be no issues there - that system works fine with the driver's height adjustable seat. So it must be the frontal dash/mounted air bag. Something about the air bag location and projected coverage area in relationship with a seat that is not stationary, but that it can move up & down a few inches.' I am sure PCNA and their lawyers are trying desperately to get this optional adjustable passenger bucket seat on the 918 approved by the US authorities. Not having such adjustment on the 'wife's' designated seat might jeopardize some sales of the 918 in the US.

Porsche, in the past, tried to address quickly issues that have prevented them from offering 'sport bucket seats' here in the US which were otherwise available to ROW. When the .1 997 gt3 & RS were introduced in MY2007, the European sport bucket seats (fixed & similar to the Carrera GT seats) offered on those cars were not approved for the US market. Adding a weight sensor would have been an easy fix. But that was not the main problem. The biggest drawback was lack of the now required side air bags (for Thorax area) on vehicles sold in the US. Porsche was able to solve that problem with the introduction of the sport bucket seats standard in the US MY2008 gt2, but it came too late for the .1 997 gt3 or RS in the US. They never got them. These folding sport buckets w. airbags were next made available in the US as options on the .2 997 from MY2009 on, the .2 gt3 & RS in MY2010/2011, the Boxster Spyder in MY2011/2012 and the Cayman R in MY2012.

Please note that these EXACT sport bucket seats (folding gt2-type w. airbags) are still being offered by Porsche in ROW for all 991's & 981's (see attached photo #1). Indeed some of the MY2014 991 gt3's delivered in Europe last week came with them as standard equipment (e.g. Macca's). It is expected that a new 'sport bucket seat', perhaps resembling in design those created for the 918's, will be introduced with the MY2015 991 gt3 RS when it debuts next year (2014). We don't yet know if the ones designed for the 991 will be folding or fixed. And we don't yet know if, in the US, the passenger side bucket seats will be electrically adjustable up & down. For sure, they will offer this feature in ROW.

Thorsten Klein, who designed the 918 seats and is probably involved in the new 991/981 sport buckets (photo #2), is not yet allowed to talk about any of this in public. I have asked him and he has declined to comment. Hopefully, we will know more this subject as 918 production starts and US customers keep asking for this option which is otherwise available in ROW. And we will have to wait until the gt3 RS is introduced before we know the exact technical makeup of those new buckets!"

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...st-2013-a.html

Saludos,
Eduardo

PS. As a result of this 'conversion', there is a possibility I will no longer be welcome at our regular Wednesday night conspiracy meetings! Oy vey!


.

Mike in CA

Eduardo, you are an amusing fellow, (and knowledgeable) An enjoyable read regarding the seat "situation". Thanks.

Nick

Another issue with the passenger side is children. Being smaller in size, airbags might either not do the job intended or cause injury if strapped into sport bucket seats.

frayed

Eduardo, you should have posted that under a pseudonym!

Now that you've written all that, you better work on your story. "Total misdirection so I can keep getting inside info from PAG to share with you all on our regular Wednesday, meetings, which, now, have to be changed to Sundays."

Seriously though, thanks for the input. Just hoping they don't cost eleventy billion dollars.

RD16RR

What is ROW ? (Sorry)

0Q991

Rest of World.

RD16RR

Thanks