991GT3 US allocations
08-25-2013, 01:16 AM
#496
Race Director
I cant understand why anyone with even a passing interest in buying the GT3 didn't stick their name on an order list 6-12 months ago. I was so paranoid from stories for friends about missing out on prior generations of GT3 (only 14-16 units come to NZ per production run!) that I put my name on the list an a deposit to commercially bind the transaction in Sept 2012. You can always cancel....
08-25-2013, 01:52 AM
#497
Race Director
I'm one of the aforementioned total poseurs (see, i even spell that word with a "u").
I've completed the first level Porsche driving academy (and came in first among the other posers) but I've not stepped up through the ranks of p-car ownership. When I was a kid in the mid-90's my dad had a 356b and a 356c (the C almost killed me in a deer avoidance maneuver on icy Michigan roads) but otherwise, I've not really done car track days to justify getting such a fantastic car as the gt3. It just occurred to me one day, that if I'm going to spend real $ on a car, it has to be a dream, not a "meh" purchase. So gt3 it is, even if my driving cred and experience doesn't support it. Ill try to become worthy... But I may also drive it to Starbucks or C&C and coffee and bench-race and pose occasionally. Once a poseur.. Always a poseur ;-)
I've completed the first level Porsche driving academy (and came in first among the other posers) but I've not stepped up through the ranks of p-car ownership. When I was a kid in the mid-90's my dad had a 356b and a 356c (the C almost killed me in a deer avoidance maneuver on icy Michigan roads) but otherwise, I've not really done car track days to justify getting such a fantastic car as the gt3. It just occurred to me one day, that if I'm going to spend real $ on a car, it has to be a dream, not a "meh" purchase. So gt3 it is, even if my driving cred and experience doesn't support it. Ill try to become worthy... But I may also drive it to Starbucks or C&C and coffee and bench-race and pose occasionally. Once a poseur.. Always a poseur ;-)
08-25-2013, 09:07 AM
#498
I'm one of the aforementioned total poseurs (see, i even spell that word with a "u").
I've completed the first level Porsche driving academy (and came in first among the other posers) but I've not stepped up through the ranks of p-car ownership. When I was a kid in the mid-90's my dad had a 356b and a 356c (the C almost killed me in a deer avoidance maneuver on icy Michigan roads) but otherwise, I've not really done car track days to justify getting such a fantastic car as the gt3. It just occurred to me one day, that if I'm going to spend real $ on a car, it has to be a dream, not a "meh" purchase. So gt3 it is, even if my driving cred and experience doesn't support it. Ill try to become worthy... But I may also drive it to Starbucks or C&C and coffee and bench-race and pose occasionally. Once a poseur.. Always a poseur ;-)
I've completed the first level Porsche driving academy (and came in first among the other posers) but I've not stepped up through the ranks of p-car ownership. When I was a kid in the mid-90's my dad had a 356b and a 356c (the C almost killed me in a deer avoidance maneuver on icy Michigan roads) but otherwise, I've not really done car track days to justify getting such a fantastic car as the gt3. It just occurred to me one day, that if I'm going to spend real $ on a car, it has to be a dream, not a "meh" purchase. So gt3 it is, even if my driving cred and experience doesn't support it. Ill try to become worthy... But I may also drive it to Starbucks or C&C and coffee and bench-race and pose occasionally. Once a poseur.. Always a poseur ;-)
BTW, you don't sound like a poseur.
08-25-2013, 09:41 AM
#499
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GT3 poseur = someone who doesn't have the ability to drive the car 'reasonably' close to its limit on the track AND has no serious intention of learning to do so. Keep in mind that it takes most people many dozens of track days, with quality instruction, to get to that point.
08-25-2013, 01:22 PM
#502
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There will be some first time porsche buyers in the GT3, some folks who have never done any track time, and some who've never owned a porsche or ever run a track. I would never begrudge such new owners, but I do question the wisdom of their decision.
I think we'll see that while the new GT3 is more street friendly due to its improved road manners, in the big scheme of things it will prove out to still be a bit on the extreme side for a lot of people. I think we'll see more people flipping the cars who had expectations that the car is daily use friendly. A typical AMG buyer will not be happy in the GT3 as their first entry into Porsche-dom.
IMO.
I think we'll see that while the new GT3 is more street friendly due to its improved road manners, in the big scheme of things it will prove out to still be a bit on the extreme side for a lot of people. I think we'll see more people flipping the cars who had expectations that the car is daily use friendly. A typical AMG buyer will not be happy in the GT3 as their first entry into Porsche-dom.
IMO.
08-25-2013, 01:27 PM
#503
Race Director
With suspension setting on comfort similar to 991, PDK, and similar sound deadening (plus ability to switch sports exhaust off), why would this generation of gt3 at this point be any different from a regular 991 from the standpoint of daily driving.
08-25-2013, 01:47 PM
#504
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My prior 996 GT3 was a terrible daily driver relative to the 996 C2 and 996 C4S I owned.
My prior 997 GT3 was an inferior daily driver to the 997 C2S launch car I owned.
From the 996 to the 997 series, the 997 GT3 was made more street friendly, but 997 C2S was better sorted for daily driving. Softer, more compliant suspension, less bump steer, seemingly healthier midrange punch, less frustrating ride height, back seats, more muted engine note. There's just more NVH in both the 996 and 997 GT3s than their carrera counterparts.
Perhaps the 991 GT3 offers the same jump from 996 to 997 in relative street comfort, but nevertheless it comes to us with a higher strung engine, and even stiffer springs than what's on the 996 and 997 GT3s. Not sure about sound deadening. Ride height is still a PITA, and you have to remember to hit the lift button for every incline or you'll be met with nails-on-chalkboard grinding for the front lip.
As for PDK, I'm still in the camp that I'd prefer a manual for the street so I actually see that as a demerit.
My prior 997 GT3 was an inferior daily driver to the 997 C2S launch car I owned.
From the 996 to the 997 series, the 997 GT3 was made more street friendly, but 997 C2S was better sorted for daily driving. Softer, more compliant suspension, less bump steer, seemingly healthier midrange punch, less frustrating ride height, back seats, more muted engine note. There's just more NVH in both the 996 and 997 GT3s than their carrera counterparts.
Perhaps the 991 GT3 offers the same jump from 996 to 997 in relative street comfort, but nevertheless it comes to us with a higher strung engine, and even stiffer springs than what's on the 996 and 997 GT3s. Not sure about sound deadening. Ride height is still a PITA, and you have to remember to hit the lift button for every incline or you'll be met with nails-on-chalkboard grinding for the front lip.
As for PDK, I'm still in the camp that I'd prefer a manual for the street so I actually see that as a demerit.
08-25-2013, 01:50 PM
#505
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It's still a different suspension - stiffer, lower, PDCC not an option because there's no need for it. I don't doubt that it could be used as a DD, but other cars, including other variants of the 991, would make more sense for that. OTOH, the GT3 does seem the best value in a 991 and will likely see less depreciation than most. And certainly for substantial track use, the GT3 is the 991 to get right now.
08-25-2013, 01:52 PM
#506
Burning Brakes
08-25-2013, 07:58 PM
#507
Burning Brakes
Its a nice idea but my sources at PAG tell me the opposite is indeed true.
Overall 911 numbers have been in decline as a percentage of production in the last 10 years partly as a result of the GFC, although with regards to the "BRIC" countries Porsche has had a windfall with their other product lines in the last 3-4 years, as volumes of products suitable to those markets (Cayenne & Panamera primarily) increasing in sales volume.
Below are the 2010, 2011 and 2012 numbers for the 911 taken directly from the published annual reports. You will see a big drop off in 2011 as the old model was run through and the new 991 was launched (didnt start shipping until Sept 2011). This is the usual trend over a model change year. Note these are not sales volumes but production volumes (which are lower).
By comparison average production volumes in years 2007/08/09 were around 30,000 unit pa for 911.
When AP said 10% he really meant 10%. That would be a ceiling. That's actually up from previous GT3 releases which ranged from 6-8% of total production.
2013 production is predicted to be in line with 2012 (say approx 25000 units). The challenge for the factory are the significant increase in sales of Pana/Cayenne and also new Boxster/Cayman to growth markets such as Asia, UAE & Russia. Then there is the new Macan in the 2013/14 FY!
Im not 100% sure how many 997.2 GT3 were produced in the PAG Fiscal year but suggest around 2200 units which at the time would have equated to 7.3% of production.
If the 991 GT3 does make it to 10% of 2013/14 FY production then expect around 2200-2400 production units.
Overall 911 numbers have been in decline as a percentage of production in the last 10 years partly as a result of the GFC, although with regards to the "BRIC" countries Porsche has had a windfall with their other product lines in the last 3-4 years, as volumes of products suitable to those markets (Cayenne & Panamera primarily) increasing in sales volume.
Below are the 2010, 2011 and 2012 numbers for the 911 taken directly from the published annual reports. You will see a big drop off in 2011 as the old model was run through and the new 991 was launched (didnt start shipping until Sept 2011). This is the usual trend over a model change year. Note these are not sales volumes but production volumes (which are lower).
By comparison average production volumes in years 2007/08/09 were around 30,000 unit pa for 911.
When AP said 10% he really meant 10%. That would be a ceiling. That's actually up from previous GT3 releases which ranged from 6-8% of total production.
2013 production is predicted to be in line with 2012 (say approx 25000 units). The challenge for the factory are the significant increase in sales of Pana/Cayenne and also new Boxster/Cayman to growth markets such as Asia, UAE & Russia. Then there is the new Macan in the 2013/14 FY!
Im not 100% sure how many 997.2 GT3 were produced in the PAG Fiscal year but suggest around 2200 units which at the time would have equated to 7.3% of production.
If the 991 GT3 does make it to 10% of 2013/14 FY production then expect around 2200-2400 production units.
08-25-2013, 08:08 PM
#508
Instructor
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08-25-2013, 08:10 PM
#509
Race Director
Got it, good to know, but as another poster mentions the GT three is still the best value for 991, and even if I may not be a hard-core track junkie, I can't see myself buying a softer car when my only intended use is for pleasure, never for primary transportation
08-25-2013, 09:00 PM
#510
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
GT3 poseur = someone who doesn't have the ability to drive the car 'reasonably' close to its limit on the track AND has no serious intention of learning to do so. Keep in mind that it takes most people many dozens of track days, with quality instruction, to get to that point.
GT3 owners are car enthusiast and appreciate a fine handling car. That said, it is highly unlikely he/she will track the car more than a few times a year if that. The car was purchased primarily to be used on public roads which can provide spirited driving opportunities. The value of the car to the buyer is its capabilities which he/she can use in many different situations outside of the track.
Your comments are dead wrong. You do not need to be a track junkie to drive well or drive high performance cars.
