991GT3 US allocations
07-29-2013, 05:56 PM
#421
Rennlist Member
the recent bump in 7.2 rs 4.0 prices is solely attributable to global knowledge of it being a manual mezger and the last one at that. and news of 991gt models being auto-only has cemented it.
mezger is now almost a household name.
even your bloomingdale-kitted secretaries will emit moisture when you drop the m-word
mezger is now almost a household name.
even your bloomingdale-kitted secretaries will emit moisture when you drop the m-word
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
07-29-2013, 06:01 PM
#422
Rennlist Member
Jimmy. 7.2 still falling like a stone over here. three listed this week on TradeMe. Two 7.2 GT3 with under 14k km with nice options from Porsche main dealer for 160K AUD (sale price will be 5% under) and 1 x high spec 997.2 GT3RS with 10k km askig 205k aud but I know the seller and they will take $178k aud for it because they have been trying to sell it 7 months now.
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
07-29-2013, 06:09 PM
#423
Rennlist Member
Based on what?
Why would Porsche change the pricing structure? Why would they leave an enormous gap in their line-up? Where would this put an RS 4.0 price? $230k? Porsche has proven they can't sell even a limited edition 911 at $190K or $235K, so I don't see why they'd imagine it's possible with the 991. And 911 sales are flagging, not strengthening, so there's no "context" in the market to call for dramatically higher prices.
Subjectively, I just don't want to throw a $200K car around a track. Very few people drive seriously at the track in this price range, so Porsche would be saying they'll get more sales to road drivers and collectors than to track drivers, which doesn't say much for their market expectations as a track day car. If anything, I'd rather lean towards Larry's suggestion that the 991 will be more like the 997.1 where the RS was a wide body, a wing, and a lightweight flywheel. If Porsche put together a wider GT3 with a foil wing, tweaked it to 500hp claimed and dropped the weight with some composite body bits (and things like battery, seats, thing glass) and brought it in $20K over the GT3, I think they've got a much more appealing track day car than going for an RS 4.0-priced show pony for the speculators and the bubble-wrappers.
Why would Porsche change the pricing structure? Why would they leave an enormous gap in their line-up? Where would this put an RS 4.0 price? $230k? Porsche has proven they can't sell even a limited edition 911 at $190K or $235K, so I don't see why they'd imagine it's possible with the 991. And 911 sales are flagging, not strengthening, so there's no "context" in the market to call for dramatically higher prices.
Subjectively, I just don't want to throw a $200K car around a track. Very few people drive seriously at the track in this price range, so Porsche would be saying they'll get more sales to road drivers and collectors than to track drivers, which doesn't say much for their market expectations as a track day car. If anything, I'd rather lean towards Larry's suggestion that the 991 will be more like the 997.1 where the RS was a wide body, a wing, and a lightweight flywheel. If Porsche put together a wider GT3 with a foil wing, tweaked it to 500hp claimed and dropped the weight with some composite body bits (and things like battery, seats, thing glass) and brought it in $20K over the GT3, I think they've got a much more appealing track day car than going for an RS 4.0-priced show pony for the speculators and the bubble-wrappers.
I wonder if my "prediction" will come true ... ???
07-29-2013, 06:11 PM
#424
Jimmy. 7.2 still falling like a stone over here. three listed this week on TradeMe. Two 7.2 GT3 with under 14k km with nice options from Porsche main dealer for 160K AUD (sale price will be 5% under) and 1 x high spec 997.2 GT3RS with 10k km askig 205k aud but I know the seller and they will take $178k aud for it because they have been trying to sell it 7 months now.
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
Very recently, I could have bought three different one owner, low mileage, cream puff, non-track cars (love just saying that) for low $100s. Two were CPO.
4.0 prices were high before the release of the 991.
07-30-2013, 03:16 AM
#425
GT3 player par excellence
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1. my secretary are cladded in GA black label. what is bloomingdale?
2. emit moisture.... hum.... is this what i think it is? this is rennlist or redtube. i think my computer browser must be broken.....
07-30-2013, 03:22 AM
#426
GT3 player par excellence
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Though I was in Shanghai recently and I didn't see the extravagant wealth there that peeps talk about. (But the food was exceptional.)
Timepieces. . . as cliche as it sounds that's why rolexes are great. They are day to day wearable v. some higher end 5 figure watches that are delicate. Maybe I should just get a seiko but it might turn my wrist green
Serious track driving. . . I always found it funny when people talk about 'racing' in the context of a street car like the GT3. I think GT3s are just gateway drugs. . . an invitation to go wheel to wheel racing in a properly prepared race car, but one that very few actually get into.
I'm thinking an arrive and drive lottery-based spec racing series would be a blast.
Now I'm rambling. Your fault mooty
Timepieces. . . as cliche as it sounds that's why rolexes are great. They are day to day wearable v. some higher end 5 figure watches that are delicate. Maybe I should just get a seiko but it might turn my wrist green
Serious track driving. . . I always found it funny when people talk about 'racing' in the context of a street car like the GT3. I think GT3s are just gateway drugs. . . an invitation to go wheel to wheel racing in a properly prepared race car, but one that very few actually get into.
I'm thinking an arrive and drive lottery-based spec racing series would be a blast.
Now I'm rambling. Your fault mooty
rolex are best, i tried very hard to destroy my EXP2. fell off my bike, dropped it from 2nd floor balcony, hot tub with it on, brake fluid all over it.... so my wife would buy me a new one. fkg sh*t will not break. i finally killed it off with a hammer. well, i gave hammer to max and told him to hit the glass. spectacular.
had many gt3 and 4 race cars. after driving race cars. it's really hard to get excited dreiving street cars, however modified they may be. but a street car such as GT3 can be driven on track no prob. as long as not confused as race car or serious driving, lol. it's serious recreation however.
dont blame me for babbling. reter (trakcar) started it all. too much beer you know and cheap peanuts while he's flying all over for work.
07-30-2013, 03:50 AM
#427
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Jimmy. 7.2 still falling like a stone over here. three listed this week on TradeMe. Two 7.2 GT3 with under 14k km with nice options from Porsche main dealer for 160K AUD (sale price will be 5% under) and 1 x high spec 997.2 GT3RS with 10k km askig 205k aud but I know the seller and they will take $178k aud for it because they have been trying to sell it 7 months now.
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
07-30-2013, 03:56 AM
#428
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07-30-2013, 09:41 AM
#429
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Jimmy. 7.2 still falling like a stone over here. three listed this week on TradeMe. Two 7.2 GT3 with under 14k km with nice options from Porsche main dealer for 160K AUD (sale price will be 5% under) and 1 x high spec 997.2 GT3RS with 10k km askig 205k aud but I know the seller and they will take $178k aud for it because they have been trying to sell it 7 months now.
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
The prices arent going up. They are going down. Apart from the 4.0RS that is...
07-30-2013, 10:45 AM
#434
I passed on my own order for an RS 4.0 at MSRP because I didn't want to do business with the dealer, and the car was not a compelling value for my interests. At that time, nobody on the planet was sharing their crystal ball -- there was at least two cars at MSRP in the Bay Area, and at least one other I found just by asking here on Rennlist. A dealer then held the car and refused to sell it to other buyers. They flipped it via an unscrupulous deal, then another dealer held the car for six months before getting maybe a 10% profit.
As the philosopher Mooty said recently, I mistake the RS 4.0 for a car to be driven. In fact, it's a car to be owned and posed. There are just a handful of exceptions to this use.
If cars were investments and I missed out on a 10% gain on at least a 10% risk of loss, I'd say that was a mediocre deal. As a car, 4.0 simply was not (is not) worth the premium over a 3.8 when comparing msrp, and certainly not worth the premium being scalped out of the secondary market.
As for NZ vs USA markets, it's summer in the USA and there's basically no 3.8's for sale. Maybe 5 or 10 in the whole country. Maybe another 5 or so, not really for sale, just held out by dealers as high price "suckers only need apply." I check from month to month and scratch my chin about selling my 3.8 at whatever might be a reasonable and fair market. Right now, I'd say it's about 10% under msrp. Pretty good for any 911. Still, it's winter in the antipodes, and maybe a small bubble in premium pricing is deflating. It is utterly impossible to know why market prices fluctuate. One can speculate that it's a simple causality in plain view, but as someone whose business it is to trade markets since last century, I am of the carefully constructed opinion that supply and demand do not dance to the beat of a single drum.
As the philosopher Mooty said recently, I mistake the RS 4.0 for a car to be driven. In fact, it's a car to be owned and posed. There are just a handful of exceptions to this use.
If cars were investments and I missed out on a 10% gain on at least a 10% risk of loss, I'd say that was a mediocre deal. As a car, 4.0 simply was not (is not) worth the premium over a 3.8 when comparing msrp, and certainly not worth the premium being scalped out of the secondary market.
As for NZ vs USA markets, it's summer in the USA and there's basically no 3.8's for sale. Maybe 5 or 10 in the whole country. Maybe another 5 or so, not really for sale, just held out by dealers as high price "suckers only need apply." I check from month to month and scratch my chin about selling my 3.8 at whatever might be a reasonable and fair market. Right now, I'd say it's about 10% under msrp. Pretty good for any 911. Still, it's winter in the antipodes, and maybe a small bubble in premium pricing is deflating. It is utterly impossible to know why market prices fluctuate. One can speculate that it's a simple causality in plain view, but as someone whose business it is to trade markets since last century, I am of the carefully constructed opinion that supply and demand do not dance to the beat of a single drum.
Last edited by Carrera GT; 07-30-2013 at 06:41 PM.
