Road and Track first drive: 991 GT3
04-30-2013, 07:49 PM
#76
Three Wheelin'
Seems that a lot of the debate is related to what the 991 GT3 is supposed to be:
1. Race car tamed enough to be streetable?
2. Really fast but streetable DE track car?
3. Really fast street car that's trackable?
#1 would be nice, whereas the car seems more #2. I hope it's not just #3, since the 991S already covers #3 adequately. Personally, I could live with #2, since I'd track it a lot but not race it.
1. Race car tamed enough to be streetable?
2. Really fast but streetable DE track car?
3. Really fast street car that's trackable?
#1 would be nice, whereas the car seems more #2. I hope it's not just #3, since the 991S already covers #3 adequately. Personally, I could live with #2, since I'd track it a lot but not race it.
I would have described a (996 or 997) GT3 as #2, derived from #1 (1.5?).
991 'GT3' looks like 3 (maybe 3+ if some components end up being raced).
I don't think it's just the GT3-name being misused that's upset people (I bought a Cayman R, and you can go back and read the RL threads on Porsche using the 'R' moniker for that car), or the loss of the manual transmission - it's the complete loss of that type of car.
04-30-2013, 08:48 PM
#77
Agreed
I would have described a (996 or 997) GT3 as #2, derived from #1 (1.5?).
991 'GT3' looks like 3 (maybe 3+ if some components end up being raced).
I don't think it's just the GT3-name being misused that's upset people (I bought a Cayman R, and you can go back and read the RL threads on Porsche using the 'R' moniker for that car), or the loss of the manual transmission - it's the complete loss of that type of car.
I would have described a (996 or 997) GT3 as #2, derived from #1 (1.5?).
991 'GT3' looks like 3 (maybe 3+ if some components end up being raced).
I don't think it's just the GT3-name being misused that's upset people (I bought a Cayman R, and you can go back and read the RL threads on Porsche using the 'R' moniker for that car), or the loss of the manual transmission - it's the complete loss of that type of car.
04-30-2013, 08:48 PM
#78
Team Owner
Don't like what I post? Put me on ignore. I don't care. But your repeated whining & bellyaching about me is laughable.
04-30-2013, 08:54 PM
#79
That being said - what about this car makes it a GT3? How can it have virtually no parts in common with the Motorsports model and nearly all its parts in common with the regular Carreras and still carry the GT3 label?
The new GT3 is not the new GT3, it's the new Carrera GTS on steroids. If that's what you're looking to buy than more power to you but some of us are going to mourn the loss of the street car linked to Porsche Motorsport regardless.
04-30-2013, 09:13 PM
#81
Which is the opposite of the 997 GT3, by the way. The 997 GT3 shares the entire street Carrera suspension with a couple rubber bushings replaced with aluminum. While the 997 GT3 Cup uses totally different uprights, etc. If they've gone to the trouble of replacing the suspension components on the 991 GT3 that seems a good sign?
04-30-2013, 09:18 PM
#82
Race Director
Which is the opposite of the 997 GT3, by the way. The 997 GT3 shares the entire street Carrera suspension with a couple rubber bushings replaced with aluminum. While the 997 GT3 Cup uses totally different uprights, etc. If they've gone to the trouble of replacing the suspension components on the 991 GT3 that seems a good sign?
04-30-2013, 09:38 PM
#83
Racer
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You put your money on them, they will bitch and whine and reassure themselves that they are purists until they get lapped by a Boxster S PDK and then they'll go and buy the GT3.
04-30-2013, 10:04 PM
#84
Three Wheelin'
What makes the 991 less of a DE car that the 997 or 996 in your mind? The brakes are bigger- likely more suitable for the track. The transmission is now arguably closer to a cup car's than the 6 speed was. Word is that proper buckets are coming. Any guesses about reliability are simply that at this point... So what do you think makes the 991 any less capable as a DE car?
What I though I said was that the 996 and 997 GT3s were between Manifold's #1 (a tamed race car) and #2 (really fast, but streetable DE) - that those GT3s were derived from the race cars.
The only point you make that I disagree with is over the transmission similarities - paddle-control seems to be the only similarity.
04-30-2013, 10:47 PM
#85
Race Director
Doesn't engaging gears sequentially, the speed of gearshifts, the performance advantage, and the paddle/shifter interface make PDK more similar in it's operation to the race gearbox than a conventional 6 speed MT would be?
Last edited by Mike in CA; 04-30-2013 at 11:48 PM.
05-01-2013, 01:42 AM
#87
Three Wheelin'
I've not read-up on the new cup car's paddle-actuators, so I have no idea.
05-01-2013, 02:43 AM
#88
I think Jethro Bovington sums it up best in this months 'Evo':
"The GT3 has never been just about outright power and grip. The joy of this stripped-back 911 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel, chases lap times but never at the expense of driver involvement, and that it rewards at walking pace even though it's developed to be driven flat-out for hours on end without so much as a flicker of its oil temperature gauge."
That is what many fear the 991 GT3 will be lacking. In six months or so, I guess we will find out.
"The GT3 has never been just about outright power and grip. The joy of this stripped-back 911 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel, chases lap times but never at the expense of driver involvement, and that it rewards at walking pace even though it's developed to be driven flat-out for hours on end without so much as a flicker of its oil temperature gauge."
That is what many fear the 991 GT3 will be lacking. In six months or so, I guess we will find out.
05-01-2013, 03:45 AM
#89
Race Director
I think Jethro Bovington sums it up best in this months 'Evo':
"The GT3 has never been just about outright power and grip. The joy of this stripped-back 911 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel, chases lap times but never at the expense of driver involvement, and that it rewards at walking pace even though it's developed to be driven flat-out for hours on end without so much as a flicker of its oil temperature gauge."
That is what many fear the 991 GT3 will be lacking. In six months or so, I guess we will find out.
"The GT3 has never been just about outright power and grip. The joy of this stripped-back 911 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel, chases lap times but never at the expense of driver involvement, and that it rewards at walking pace even though it's developed to be driven flat-out for hours on end without so much as a flicker of its oil temperature gauge."
That is what many fear the 991 GT3 will be lacking. In six months or so, I guess we will find out.
The thing is, I've never heard so much rationalization as to why having a slower performance car is better, as I've heard in this discussion about the new GT3. I can just imagine back in the day explaining that while my car was slower, it was so much more "involving". Anyone who said that would have been laughed off the street.
A different mind set, I guess, and one that probably makes me the "dinosaur".
05-01-2013, 07:51 AM
#90
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^ But, again, we need to distinguish between performance vs race car. Many here are effectively arguing that a performance car must deliver enough performance while maximizing fun (especially via involvement), not the other way around. IMO, all of the GT3 generations deliver ample performance, so the question we all want answered now is whether the 991 GT3 delivers enough fun. I'm eager to find out (#2 on my dealer's list, but no deposit yet).
