991 GT3 - 'Shut up and drive' says Porsche GT3 boss
05-06-2013 | 04:12 PM
#121
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,539
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From: great white north
+1 Much ado about.....very little.
This whole issue about a paltry 70-80 lbs ( the majority of which will be mitigated once lighter seats and battery are available) is silly in another context. How many new near 500HP production sports cars, from any manufacturer, weigh significantly less than the 991 GT3's 3153 lbs? The C7 Stingray hopes to match the outgoing C6 at 3311lbs. The SRT Viper is 3356 lbs. The new Z28, 3700+. 458 Italia 3400. McLaren MP4-12C 3270. Vantage V12 3700. It's not easy (or cheap) to get a modern, streetable, big horsepower car under 3100 lbs in today's regulatory environment.
On second thought......much ado about......nothing.
This whole issue about a paltry 70-80 lbs ( the majority of which will be mitigated once lighter seats and battery are available) is silly in another context. How many new near 500HP production sports cars, from any manufacturer, weigh significantly less than the 991 GT3's 3153 lbs? The C7 Stingray hopes to match the outgoing C6 at 3311lbs. The SRT Viper is 3356 lbs. The new Z28, 3700+. 458 Italia 3400. McLaren MP4-12C 3270. Vantage V12 3700. It's not easy (or cheap) to get a modern, streetable, big horsepower car under 3100 lbs in today's regulatory environment.
On second thought......much ado about......nothing.
I think we all hoped the GT3 would have been lighter then the out going GT3 but they decided to go the route of adding technology to it rather offering a lighter manual version and all this comes with weight. With the wheel/tire and brake sizes, longer wider platform how could it ever lose any weight. 3150 lbs is a good weight considering the technology added and size of this new model.
05-06-2013 | 04:26 PM
#122
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: North Bay Area, CA
I think we all hoped the GT3 would have been lighter then the out going GT3 but they decided to go the route of adding technology to it rather offering a lighter manual version and all this comes with weight. With the wheel/tire and brake sizes, longer wider platform how could it ever lose any weight. 3150 lbs is a good weight considering the technology added and size of this new model.
05-06-2013 | 05:12 PM
#123
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,650
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From: Atlanta
Added weight not likely noticeable. Just previously pointing out that the car is not lighter than its predecessor.
Added performance very likely, very noticeable, which will make for my faster lap times to the grocery store and C & C events.
4WS, PDK and 20" wheels/tires made up most of this weight.
Added performance very likely, very noticeable, which will make for my faster lap times to the grocery store and C & C events.
4WS, PDK and 20" wheels/tires made up most of this weight.
05-06-2013 | 05:39 PM
#124
Racer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 481
Likes: 204
From: UK
I'd have to agree. The C7 weight is 3300 lbs. When the track stuff gets added to the base it will be slightly more weight added.
I think we all hoped the GT3 would have been lighter then the out going GT3 but they decided to go the route of adding technology to it rather offering a lighter manual version and all this comes with weight. With the wheel/tire and brake sizes, longer wider platform how could it ever lose any weight. 3150 lbs is a good weight considering the technology added and size of this new model.
I think we all hoped the GT3 would have been lighter then the out going GT3 but they decided to go the route of adding technology to it rather offering a lighter manual version and all this comes with weight. With the wheel/tire and brake sizes, longer wider platform how could it ever lose any weight. 3150 lbs is a good weight considering the technology added and size of this new model.
05-06-2013 | 07:18 PM
#125
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,140
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From: New Zealand
The already extensive use of aluminum panels (hood, engine cover, doors, roof) in the base 991's have made it harder to achieve weight improvements with the 991 GT3, which I suspect is one reason why their weights are closer together. Even so, the difference in curb weight between a PDK 991 Carrera S and a 991 GT3 is a mere 33lbs and the GT3 is a hell of a lot more powerful and capable car in a wider package.
If people are really mad about not having bragging rights at C&C (good one
), as opposed to a weight difference one can actually feel or measure, I suspect anger management issues....
If people are really mad about not having bragging rights at C&C (good one
), as opposed to a weight difference one can actually feel or measure, I suspect anger management issues....The bar is set even higher for the 991 GT3 RS. Assuming its stock with PDK-S & 4WS (a given I should think) then apart from lighter weight seats being available by then I think they will be fighting hard to find 70-80lb to remove. Maybe thinner glass, composite roof and fenders but if it comes standard with a half cage then all of those benefits will be null. I gets the could scrape a few lbs from teh wheels somehow and a lighter exhaust, maybe 20lb in interior appointments/carpet but even composite panels are saving relatively little over the aluminium used in the 991 GT3. My best guess is we will see no more than a 50kg difference for the RS (and there needs to be one as Im sure it will be 30-40k usd more expensive).
05-06-2013 | 07:53 PM
#126
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From: Wishing I Was At The Track
05-06-2013 | 07:55 PM
#127
Addict
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From: Denver
That's because the GT3 then included the heavier (and much better performing and enduring) motorsport engine and gearbox, compared to the 996.1 Carrera's, which is now considered to be among the least track-worthy of any with a Porsche inscription.
05-06-2013 | 08:03 PM
#128
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: New Zealand
Grant. Yes you are partly right. The wheels were also quite heavy (Sport Design). The project focus wasn't weight like with the predessor 993RS & 964RS (100kg savings approx a piece of factory base model).
With the new 996 GT3 Platform they leapt 60 bhp over the 993RS, small increased torque with a new and improved chassis and almost 1000 more rpm to the limiter.
I many ways sounds like the paragdign shift with the 991 GT3 IMHO. 35kg up but new chassis platform, 50 bhp more (realistically), 4WS & PDK.
The 1999 GT3 was a god bit quicker (2-3 sec+) around a 2 mile track than the outgoing 993RS and much easier to get quick times down......sound familiar....?
05-06-2013 | 08:09 PM
#130
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From: New Zealand
Agreed. The 993RS also had heavy but strong wheels. Something to be said for that tho. Lots of the latest lightweight wheels I have found get bent inside rims when running doses of negative camber on tarmac rally (potholes) and track (shoulders)...
05-13-2013 | 05:09 PM
#131
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: NJ
Q: Can you explain the ‘Neutral’ function built into the paddle shifters? Can we use it like a clutch kick?
A: That’s easy. If you pull both paddles towards you, it’s the same as if in a manual you press the clutch with your foot. And you can do that at any time, middle of a corner. That’s why we did it because in the middle of a corner when you want to initiate a drift you can use the jolt it gives when you let go of the clutch. You have to disengage the traction control stuff and then it comes exactly like a SNAP.
Or, if you have all the systems engaged, and you just want to make all your rear wheels load free this is good too. Just imagine you’re coming down a wet street, you’re too fast which can happen, and there’s a curve and there’s a big puddle of water standing there. Not good. So, what do you do? Normally, when I encounter a problem like that I press the clutch. Why? I want the rear wheel to be free of any overrun or traction influence to have the maximum potential of the tire for building up side forces. And that’s what you do simply by pressing the paddles.
It gives you more freedom, There’s additional man-machine interface. There’s no automatic upshifts in manual mode either. If you hit the rev limiter, you hit the rev limiter.
Man he almost had me thinking this wasn't an automatic Porsche. Sneaky words.
05-13-2013 | 05:23 PM
#132
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: North Bay Area, CA
I don't understand your point. A computer isn't stepping on the throttle, the driver is. In manual mode, PDK-S won't upshift until the driver choose to do so manually. If you don't shift, the engine will bounce off the rev limiter exactly as if you were in a MT car.
05-13-2013 | 08:05 PM
#133
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Tampa
I truely get what people are saying about the involving drive of a manual...it's not the actual gear selector part as much as it is the challenge of perfect rev matches on the track. That is where I believe the thrill is. If people can get past that they will find PDK to be ultra reliable and driving the car can still be fun. It is head games, really.
05-13-2013 | 08:25 PM
#134
Race Car
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Guess I'm the opposite, manual = more fun on street at sane, legal speeds. I will miss the clutch modulation you get to do with a traditional box.
I 'get' the PDK for hard charging on a back country road or track, where you get to better focus on your line, braking etc etc.
Not sure if that makes sense.
I 'get' the PDK for hard charging on a back country road or track, where you get to better focus on your line, braking etc etc.
Not sure if that makes sense.
05-13-2013 | 10:48 PM
#135
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Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Dallas
May be he is talking about the lack of the "money shift" feature in PDK.