mike2727

Please keep in mind we (in the US) get a watered down GT3 (no buckets seats, no clubsport etc, no warranty when driven on track), so the negative and sarcastic remarks do have some ground)

Me personally do like the PDK, no sure what to think about the RWS, PTV+ but for me the maintenance schedules for PDK, CL, RWS etc will determine if I buy the GT3 or not

Don't want to get a suprise like the 997.2 GT3 owners received on the CL's

Mike

Mike in CA

Mike, the only real issue is the sport buckets and that's temporary and restricted to NA; Clubsport has never been offered in the US and the warranty issue is identical to every other Porsche and virtually every other manufacturer.

BTW, the way I read the warranty disclaimers, track use does not automatically invalidate the entire warranty. However, if parts fail during a track event, as stated specifically in the warranty, they will not be covered. Even this may be subject to interpretation by a sympathetic dealer. Personally I don't see any manufacturer covering parts that fail during competition; that's hardly an unreasonable policy.

Z356

I doesn't matter. We will hang you too. Please PM your address in Gothenburg! By the way, nice 981 Boxster you got there!

Saludos,
Eduardo

Z356

Mike, how many Porsche club 'Driver Education' events have you ever attended that are referred to as 'competition' or 'racing'?

I think you might have drunk the 'Kool-Aid', my friend, but I hope you are not in Jonestown!

Saludos,
Eduardo

Mike in CA

Eduardo, I see little benefit to engaging in wordsmithing. Competition, on track DE events, racing; call them what you will. The point is that few if any manufacturers are going to cover failures that occur during activities outside the normal bounds of street driving. Period. Moreover, this is nothing new for Porsche, so to keep making a big deal out of the fact that presumably the new GT3 will have this language in the warranty package, just like every other GT and street car that Porsche has built, is silly and irrelevant.

I don't drink Kool-Aid, my friend. Too much sugar.....

Kelderek

You'll have to get that GT3 RS if you are to catch me!

Macca

Porsche.collector. Things just havent gone your way with this whole 991 GT3/RS have they? From early predictions through to final specs. Never know the real deal when finally "driven" for the first time may actually provide ENLIGHTENMENT.

The good news is you already own a manual and can save some coin. If you get tempted to go 991 GT3 my belief is that the GT3 will provide more bang for buck than the RS which sounds like its gong to look very "Cartoon".

I think Porsche have over delivered techwise with this 50th anniversary 991 GT3 offering and comparatively there is not so much left on the table for the new RS. The "increased deviation" AP talks about will likely be more cosmetic in nature than performance. They will get 35-40kg out of the car using lightweight glass and bucket seats but they will not go made with composites as they have to keep the 918 and 960 products unique in that regard. I thing the aesthetics of the 991 GT3 are just right and personally couldnt drive anything with a wing the size of the Cup car and lots of little plastic aero parts stuck on the front bumper. If you want graphics have them designed, cut and applied to your GT3....

P_collector

Hi Macca,

"my way"..who am I..what is "my way"..my opinion doesnt count anyway..Im just one the members here like you. I am however not the only one who has some issues...so my opinion is also shared by others...

I hope to see an interesting 960 one day..otherwise I can imagine myself buying the the 981 boxster and Cayman as "daily driver"..but these cars have like any normal 996, 997, 991 no racing pedigree.

We look forward to your 991 GT3 reviews..

PS: I think I said already before the GT3 was revealed in Geneva "PDK only"..was I wrong?

mike2727

Hi Mike

What I heard first hand from European Porsche owners, they do not get their warranty voided after they have been to the track, while I know of a couple people personally that have been refused warranty due to having tracked (DE) the car in the US

I have never mentioned competition, I am and have always indicated DE, which is not competition, neither is it racing

So that is why I mentioned, we (in the US) are getting a watered down version of the GT3, that is besides the bucket seats, or the CS package which you rightfully mention as never being made available in the US as part of the car, this might have to do with DOT, although I was told by a DOT officer that a rollbar is not against any of their regulations, I cannot attest that this is also the case if you order a car that comes with it from the Factory, but having it installed after importing the car it was not an issue according to the DOT Officer I spoke to.

Porsche advertises the car as a track oriented car, so why is this line in the US Owners Manual (just the parts in Bold);

"Your vehicle warranty does not cover use in competition, racing or track use or other events.
Components and/or parts that fail during racing ordriving events (including Porsche sponsored events) will not be covered by the manufacturer new car limited warranty or the pre-owned vehicle warranty.

So hypothetically if I was present at a Porsche event or any other event and would participate in parade lap(s), that would by the owners manual void my warranty.

I am not talking about wear and tear items or consumables, but engine, drivetrain, electronics etc, why would you not get warranty coverage if the failure happens by coincidence during a track event ?

What tools does Porsche have to determine if you went to the track with the car ?

Mike

StirlingMoss

Been there, done it. So far never heard of anyone here being in trouble for driving the car on a track, breaking stuff on the track and then getting it fixed on warranty.

Macca

Sorry Porsche.collector. My comments were a bit tongue in cheek so to speak.

The way I see it we all lament the passing on the MT GT cars. I think we were all caught a bit unawares until perhaps 3 months ago when it looked like the GT3 was definitely PDK. The thing was we all held the RS up as being the potential savior. But it looks like Porsche may have dashed those hopes. Once they go PDK on these two flagship models there is no going back I suspect. Its obviously mandated from the highest level of PAG.

I was conditioned to the PDK and actually having never owned anything but a manual sports car was looking forward to it as a forced change and chance to understand where this is all going. Of course I still have an oldtimer manual to fall back on. But i do agree with you that a MT Cayman R with some fettling will make a great future option as a DD and I can see those and Boxster Spyders being in strong demand in the future.

In two years time half those on this board will have flipped their 3.8RS for GT3/RS 991 and well wonder what all the fuss is. If it doesn't suit ones taste the great thing is we can always backdate to one of those past models for cheaper than the new model anyhow.

Porsche is taking this out of our hands and we are forced into the new world if we wish to continue our journey with this Marque. Ferrari owners before us and soon Lambo owners and Audi owners no doubt will be faced by the same dilemma. In 4 years well be concerned about the fate of the petrol engine such will be the hybrids relentless path into the GT3 product line!

The only consolation I can offer is that the GT3 will be a much more engaging drive I believe than many believe is possible from a PDK GT. De coupling the clutch by pulling back both paddles and the way it takes up power when they are re engaged was a master stroke I suspect. You can get this car power-sliding sideways very easy using this technique as Im sure we will hear later on and it does add a small consolation for those that think the automated transmission may be entirely boring. The other consolation which I feel we will heard more about later this year and before the GT3 is delivered is the movement of the 2014 Cup cars more towards the GT3 platform, by that I mean the powerplant we will find becomes the same restoring the motosports link once again....

Lets hope for small blessings....

P_collector

Yes..

You are fully correct, there are no warranty issues for European GT3 and GT2..only if severe overrevs occur - or of course - wear parts are not included either.

Wanna know an example? My first 3.6 GT3 was tracked also a bit..after 20,000 milest the front shock dampers were worn out..after some discussion with Porsche I got new ones - FOR FREE..OK..maybe I am a good customer..but I know that normal 911 or Boxster owners would have had no chance in getting these for free..

I put here already the link of the racing series organised by Porsche Germany - Porsche Sports Cup - all 996 and 997 Gt3s - Gt2s are running there..its officially organised by Porsche..and there is no word of "oh - you go on the track - forget about your warranty" - and I have seen things there...cold engines - and owners go on track with GT3 and after 100Meters there are at 9000rpm..!!..while official Porsche employees are just enjoying the scenery..

I think the reason behind is the different legal systems also..but its just a guess. In Europe a grandma couldnt sue a McDonalds for a hot coffee burning her skin..you know what I mean..

Mike in CA

Hi Mike,
I can see I'm going to continue to pay for use of the word "competition".

As I tried to clarify with my follow up comment to Eduardo above, the issue is not competition per se, it's the fact that the event occured outside of normal street use. Whether it's competition, racing, track events, or any off road use, all manufacturers, including Porsche, have disclaimers in their warranty language.

This is not a value judgement; it would be great if manufacturers covered our cars no matter what kind of activity we're engaged in. It's just a fact, and being objective about it I can understand (though don't necessarily agree) why Porsche would hesitate to warranty your car while you're racing or learning how to drive it at speed on track. It doesn't mean the car isn't capable of being driven on track, or that your warranty is void because you did, just that while on the track you assume responsiblity for what happens to it.

I don't know if a dealer has a way to tell for sure if a problem occured on track unless they bother to do a lot of investigation. My dealer realigned my front suspension to get me maximum negative camber from my stock sport suspension for autocrossing. They know I have sport buckets and have seen my harness bar and 6 point belts. There's never been a question or issue around warranty. If I came to them with an engine problem, I think they'd work with me and not make a big deal of the autocrossing. They also sell chips and other performance equipment and I've been told they will honor the warranty if these items are installed.

All dealers may not be as liberal, and per the warranty language they don't legally have to be. Again, I'm not offering an opinion on whether that's right, that's just the way it is. And to keep making an issue of this with the new GT3, as though it proves something about the car, is unreasonable.

P_collector

Hi Macca,

OK..if the 2014 CUP uses this engine..this would partly restore the confidence..however, I also want to see it in the RSR..if that also done..then from an "engine point of view"..Im fine.

Two more things:
In two years time half those on this board will have flipped their 3.8RS for GT3/RS 991 and well wonder what all the fuss is. If it doesn't suit ones taste the great thing is we can always backdate to one of those past models for cheaper than the new model anyhow.

well..I bet you in 5 years time a 4.0L will be still more expensive than a new 991 Gt3..and my 3.8 GT3 will be worth more than your second hand 991 Gt3..but lets see about that..

Porsche is taking this out of our hands and we are forced into the new world if we wish to continue our journey with this Marque. Ferrari owners before us and soon Lambo owners and Audi owners no doubt will be faced by the same dilemma. In 4 years well be concerned about the fate of the petrol engine such will be the hybrids relentless path into the GT3 product line!

YES and agian YES - you are fully correct, or tell me - or anyone, how you can get to roughly 150C02 emissions per 100km...? Not with a GT3..by the way, tell us something on the emission values of the new engine..? its almost not cleaner than the outgoing one..how is this possible?

all the best,

mike2727

Hi Mike

I guess I should throw logic out the door, no you do not have warranty on the track, but have fun on the street in the rain with the OEM R compound tires LOL

I agree with most of what you are saying, taking responsibility when on track etc, but that does not include any failure that might occur to the drivetrain, because it should be able to handle that.

And most importantly that Porsche seems to make a difference between their ROW/European customers and US customers, when it comes to the useage of the car

Well I guess time wil tell, how it is all going to work out

Mike