Yeah, aside the from the 510hp figure (which was hinted by a legitimate source), I am just guessing too

 

Hi Macca. Yeah, it's sort of like whack-a-mole; ultimately futile, yet strangely entertaining! Took a good long cobweb-blasting drive in my Carrera S today while thinking thoughts of what it will be like to have an improved chassis and another 100+ HP to play with. Cheers, mate!

 

GrantG. Actually I was given 500 bhp too. If it is claimed at 500 bhp then I'm guessing its "real" at 520+ bhp if APs quote on the 991 GT3 at 475 (more like 493) is anything to go by.

I think we are both on the right track here with our information the question mark is displacement. personally to post meaningfully better number in my mind the engine needs another 15 lbft torque. The easiest way would be 4.0L displacement although Im guessing 8-12 is possible through exhaust, intake, manifold and software improvements.

Who knows. Guess we all will in another few months...

 

Mike. Brothers in arms! It will be worth it I'm sure. Going in eyes wide open and like you having kept an eye on developments and press every step of the way certainly helps expectations. From the 993 its like three generations improved chassis/handling and 200 bhp. I just wont know what to do with myself LOL! There's a cup holder too I dont have in the 993 ha ha ha (oops have I just started something again....).

 

Sorry Mike, I give up
If you cannot see where I am coming from it is a waist of everybodies time

I prefer to work with facts, and not falling back on what "might" be due to US regulattions

If I buy a GT3 I want the same warranty coverage as ROW, the US regulations have no say in that, the Company that sells the car has
I am sure you will get back with the fact that we (US) have 4 years opposed to 2 years in Europe, but at least those 2 years are full coverage

Mike

 

This is the bit where as an ROW owner I get a little upset and actually quite vocal.

My country has no import tax and yet PAG feel fit to charge me almost twice what you pay in the USA (ok your currency is crap weak at the moment but your P cars have always been at least 50% cheaper than here). Moreover you get options like PCM+NAvi that I have to pay thousands for (if I were to want that option). To make it worse in my country we don't earn as much as in your country and we don't get a four year warranty (Really - what other manufacturer warranty's their cars for use on the race trace anyway and even if they did it would be subject to over rev download data from ecu etc)......

Oh yeah but its all ok to pay 273,000 USD for a 991 GT3 without 4 years warranty because Im ROW and I get the option of folding damn GT2 "bucket" seats that look real cool but weigh almost as much as standard seats, cost 3000 USD more than standard seats and actually do diddly squat more to hold you in position!

Before someone says "why don't you complain to Porsche", we do all the time but the 8-10 x 991.1 GT3 owners here cannot be heard from being downed out by the sound of 6 million sheep and we are a country of four million peeps most of which cant actually afford a Toyota Camery let alone a Stuttgart GT! Our borthers in Australia pay even more than us and their currency is stronger than the green back! Go figure!

So I dont have much time for the whining about sports seats and cover on the track etc sorry. I know that's pretty harsh given this is supposed to be some love in community where we all care for one another but the honest truth is none of that stuff is particularly relevant to me just as much of my problems arent relevant to you (like the sheep for example!). Moreover Im not insured (infact its damn well impossible unless you want to pay a 5% premium) when I go to the track in my 993 nor when I run Targa (road rally's) and I subscribe to the point of view that if you want to buy a toy and thrash it around the track and it goes bank or you plant it in the armaco then assuming no engineering defect (on a new car that is not a 20 year old 911) then you suck it up yourself. See not only do we have too many sheep and bloody expensive Porsches but we also lack a litigation bent society so we get buggar all suport when it all goes wrong (but dont live our lives with the fear of being sued either it must be said!).

So there you all have it brothers. I respect every one of you but you pay far too little for your cars because you have numbers on your side and you get treated pretty well compared to the rest of us in ROW pleb land so when we get a small advantage like folding bucket seats we damn well deserve them too LOL!

Enjoy and Im sure you can work out which parts are tongue in cheek (if not then you need a humor transplant)!

 

Oh yeah and as well as sheep we have clean air, beautiful scenery great roads and low crime. We have sense of humor too

 

Must keep in mind that people paid probably a $50k premium for the fact that the car was a limited run Mike. I'm sure they wouldn't be charging much more than $150k if that spec was a 991 RS and not limited in numbers... Just saying...

 

"as well as sheep"..just biting my tongue...

(and Hobbits's too..)

 

LOL! Good on ya mate! Yip, forgot we had the Aussie quarter on here - open game aye! At least when you hit them on the road your paintwork gets a lovely woolen mitt buff not like those Roos which leave dents on your trunk and roof...

 

+1 Macca on 991gt3 performance being understated.

And yeah I think once real tires are available in 20's, you will see the real ability of the 991gt3.

4.0 is a bookend car. Never intended to be other than a last hoorah, to be paid for by enthusiasts. I still think its worth the $200K, even if the 991 kills it. It is the greatest, most special 997 ever made. And it will stay that way. Not like the 918.

I find it funny that Porsche is trying to overwhelm everyone with the performance of the 991, yet trip over themselves to not oversell it vs the 3.8RS or the 4.0. Its comical.

 

Hi Macca,

Om the performance figures..dont be blind:

997 GTS never had 408HP..some even say it had below 400
997 GT3 RS 4.0 did not have 500HP (so you see even I can criticise something on the outgoing engine)
996.1 never had 300 - but more 285HP
and so on..

So..letst take this with a grain of salt..as they say. In fact the only Porsche I know of that produced more power than claimed:
996 GT3 RS - close to 400HP
997.2 GT3 - more around 445
997 GT2 - more around 550HP

I dont believe that the new engine has more than claimed HP..why? Porsche is so focused on the marketing..why should they then - be not correct on this one? makes no sense or?

I would rather guess the opposite..so far the DFI engines did not geht the claimed HP..just ask some reputable tuners. This is not a specicifc Porsche criticism..at Ferrari I heard "wish" and "reality" are even further away..

Few more points for you - would appreciated your fedback on it:

1. 991 GT3 without start & stop - good
2. 991 GT3 with sound symposer? I hope not..or?
3. CO2 emissions..nobody has talked about it yet..but its almost not better then the outgoing one..and compared to to the 991S CO2 levels the new GT3 engine is a " heavy polluter"...- in the good old fashioned way..- but how come? im really suprised by it. Another thing I would be interested in reading once you have the 991 GT3 is "consumption". My old 997 3.6 GT3 did not use more fuel then my friends 997.2 S PdK..so the old engine..despite being "old"..was not really a drinker. My GT2 can be driven on the highway with goo mileage too..


PS: Porsche will realease soon a hybrid version of one its core models..so it cant be cayenne or panamera..they already have it..so ..you are right..soon we will discuss this here too. But in the end, are these then still real sportscars for you? This is what Im a bit astonished..you own a nce 993..still the real true sportscar..I know that times change..but ..

 

I agree to what you say on the 4.0L..but how can you make any statement on the performance of the 991 GT3? Nobody has driven it yet..or put a comparison lap on any track around the world to compare to others. We only have vague expressions...

I would rather wait before this is confirmed by some independent tests...but its your thing..if you are so sure it will destroy a 4.0 by huge margins..I juist hope you wont be disappointed one day. According to your words then, the 991 GT3 must be a MP4-12 Competitor then,..or even beat it..

We will see about that.."dreams are there to be dreamt"..

 

My sources tell me what I said a few weeks ago.
Rs with 4.2l engine or perhaps even bigger and 550 hp and no manual.

Preunger hinted in car article that carbon fibre bits won't be on the rs bc they are already using thin aluminum and the weight savings to cf would be too little for too much money.

The only way to get more performance is more hp....so 4.2l 550 hp....final answer.

 

Andreas.

Your data points are no doubt very valid on those generation cars. Unfortunately expertise runs out at 993 truth be told.

Over the years I have read all the press releases. I cant every recall someone at Porsche saying something like - "here's the new 300 bhp 996 but it actually makes 320 bhp". This is effectively what AP has done on film and quoted by two different publications in the last week.

So we have three possible senarios

1). Hes mad. Lost the plot. Been smoking too much ganja before the press interview.

2). Hes simply lying. He knows that the worlds press will identify its really only a 450 bhp engine the moment they drive it and the tuners are bound to call him out the moment they get a 991 GT3 on their Dyno but Herr Piech told him to do it or get hits nuts crushed in a vice - so he lied outright and it doesn't make anywhere near 469 PS/475 bhp.

3). Hes telling the truth. The early dyno runs showed 475 bhp running the proto 4WS mechanism from a larger output alternator (with different draw from crank), but after a design change by the supplier due to a requirement that 4WS work independently of engine at revolution) the battery has now been enlarged to drive the 4WS system independently and reduce the alternator design demands giving some hp back at crank.

In regards to your questions 1-3 I understand no stop start. This is great. I never liked that idea anyway. If I want to stop at the lights and not hear the sound of 6 cylinders drinking limited fossil fuels making a grumpy idle sound I would buy a Pirius.

Sound symposium. Yuck. Again hate the idea. Whats wrong with winging the window down or nailing the throttle? I understand its not part of this 991 GT3 thank god!

Emissions. I haven't paid any attention to this. Living in a country where the price of benzine is twice that of the states and nearly as expensive as Europe you should think I would but I dont. Its addiction tax. I don't gamble or have a drug habit and drink only moderately so I consider fuel is like a tax on my habit. I know its not ecological or green but Im not really to concerned about this - Porsche can be legislated to be concerned for me. Ive been to India and China and Ive seen what the developing nations are pumping into the atmosphere and I cant help but think the whole goddamn thing is a joke. You could spend a tenth of what the state of California spends on smog related legislation and monitoring each year in India and reduce the pollutants resulting by a factor of 20x more than is being achieved in CA.

The emissions one is a good question however.

Dont get me wrong at all Porsche.collector. I have a highly modified and tuned 993 6 speed (Motec ECU, Cams, 308 bhp, lightened improved you name it) and I love it and will never sell it as it keeps hair on my chest and I just love driving that damn thing (13 years now). I think if you ask anyone around here they will tell you my 993 is possibly one of the better ones around...

Please dont misunderstand me. I dont want PDK and I dont want hybrid GT3. If truth be told I thin Porsche should have finished with the 993 and shut shop! I think everyone here should own a 993. I believe many of the owners of GT3s on this board probably own a car that they havent even touched the limits of and probably wont in a lifetime of driving. I think its a big academic stats fest that the marketing guys have us consumers latched on. Addicts. Sure you may drive a 550 bhp GT2 or 435 bhp GT3.2 and go faster than me around a chosen track but if I dropped you in my 993 could you go faster than me, or the next guy? Are we all that bloody good that we need another 40 bhp and 5 seconds Walter knocked off the Ring time? Nah.

I knew what this new GT3 package likely was some time ago and decided I need something to show me where its all going. I have the old car to teach me how good (or bad) a driver I really am (lines, braking, balance, throttle, tyre pressures, nailing the apex etc). I was going to buy the new GT3 regardless of what the packaging was because Ive been resisting that marketing hype a long long time and I want to taste what I think I have been missing. Ill probably have sold it in two years and throw some of the money back into a 360 bhp 993 engine rebuild in the UK with Colin Belton, but I need to understand if maybe this is the drug for me. Maybe, Just maybe the PDK will be entertaining and fit my lifestyle well. If I had chosen to get in the game 3 years back maybe Id be sitting this out laughing at where the GT3 is going - but Ive sat these sidelines for a long time and the 991 platform is the first since the 993 where I can see something has really changed. I dont know if its good or bad, but I also cant comment unless I try it.

So there's the honest schizophrenic muddled truth. I have a 993 so I can also have a 991 PDK GT3 and feel totally justified with one foot in each camp. If i had a 997.2 GT3 etc Id be damn happy with that too.....