GT3 RS Rumors
03-18-2013, 07:24 PM
#136
Race Director
Hi Mike
I guess I should throw logic out the door, no you do not have warranty on the track, but have fun on the street in the rain with the OEM R compound tires LOL
I agree with most of what you are saying, taking responsibility when on track etc, but that does not include any failure that might occur to the drivetrain, because it should be able to handle that.
And most importantly that Porsche seems to make a difference between their ROW/European customers and US customers, when it comes to the useage of the car
Well I guess time wil tell, how it is all going to work out
Mike
I guess I should throw logic out the door, no you do not have warranty on the track, but have fun on the street in the rain with the OEM R compound tires LOL
I agree with most of what you are saying, taking responsibility when on track etc, but that does not include any failure that might occur to the drivetrain, because it should be able to handle that.
And most importantly that Porsche seems to make a difference between their ROW/European customers and US customers, when it comes to the useage of the car
Well I guess time wil tell, how it is all going to work out
Mike
I'll say once more; if Porsche covered everything under all circumstances, including off road use, they'd likely be the only manufacturer in the US doing that.
03-18-2013, 07:39 PM
#137
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You're right, time will tell how it works out. The warranty issues we're raising, however, have much to do with liabilty and laws which are different in the US and Europe/ROW. Those legalities cut both ways, sometimes in favor of the customer, sometimes in favor of the manufacturer. For example, Porsche offers a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty in Great Britain, here it's 4 years 50K miles plus a 100K mile emmision warranty. I think most would agree we get a better deal on that one.
I'll say once more; if Porsche covered everything under all circumstances, including off road use, they'd likely be the only manufacturer in the US doing that.
I'll say once more; if Porsche covered everything under all circumstances, including off road use, they'd likely be the only manufacturer in the US doing that.
If the coverage was the same I couldn't care less about the legal statements in the OM
Mike
03-18-2013, 08:05 PM
#138
Race Director
Agree, but I am not asking to cover "everything" I am asking why Porsche does not cover US customers the same way as European customer as far as warranty coverage is concerned, that IMO has nothing to do with the legal statements in the owners manual
If the coverage was the same I couldn't care less about the legal statements in the OM
Mike
If the coverage was the same I couldn't care less about the legal statements in the OM
Mike
BTW, I'd be interested to read the fine print in a Euro owners manual to see what kind of restrictions on warranty coverage, if any, there really are.
03-18-2013, 08:26 PM
#139
Rennlist Member
RS PDK. Just cancelled my deposit.
Sad news, hang on to your 997 or if you can find a good one buy now. They just became highly tunable fun to drive bargains.
Now they are really confirmed to be the last of the last of the last cars you have to drive yourself on track pretty dependably and reasonably fast.
Sad news, hang on to your 997 or if you can find a good one buy now. They just became highly tunable fun to drive bargains.
Now they are really confirmed to be the last of the last of the last cars you have to drive yourself on track pretty dependably and reasonably fast.
They are the last of a breed of old school track day platforms.
Still looking forward to the 991 GT3 for different reasons tho but not so much to the 991 RS now..
03-18-2013, 11:05 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
Rumors can be put to rest, here is the confirmation from Andreas Preuninger himself:
Porsche GT3 boss confirms RS for 2014
Porsche GT3 boss confirms RS for 2014
But this Andy Pruneface fellow really has a lot of nerve making the following comment that insults everyone who enjoys heel and tow downshifting and manual upshifting: but Preuninger told CAR that the PDK box now offers more involvement than the manual option
On which marketing bull**** planet does he live?
03-18-2013, 11:57 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
So let me get this straight! The new GT3 has closer to 500hp (according to article, they are greatly understating output), plus wide body, plus super dooper pdk, plus 4WS, plus latest advanced chassis, plus, plus... and its still only just matching the 4.0rs at best? So where exactly are the advances? I don't see them unless DD is more your thing.
With weightsavings expensive to achieve without exotic materials that will make prices jump like crazy, I can't see what they could possibly offer an RS customer beyond 30-45 hp and a whack sticker job...
With weightsavings expensive to achieve without exotic materials that will make prices jump like crazy, I can't see what they could possibly offer an RS customer beyond 30-45 hp and a whack sticker job...
03-19-2013, 12:32 AM
#144
Rennlist Member
911rox. I think you have hit the nail on the head (some may say in the coffin).
I have it on good account that the biggest issue Porsche marketing face right now is playing down the GT3 performance envelope given the outgoing, limited edition (and expensive 4.0RS). Hence you have seen no ring times yet and when you do they will be on a street tyre (claim that suitable dot rated tyres for the car were not commercially available at time of testing).
AP has been quotes in the Evo video and now again saying the GT3s published output is understated. Its the first time Ive seen someone at Porsche use that in a launch. My guess is they are trying to ensure the 4.0RS customers do not loose the faith when the new cafe & coffee set buy a base GT3 that equals or beats the older car in all performance parameter. I cant see true afficonados caring too much frankly - if I was lucky+wealthy enough to own a 4.0RS I wouldn't even be dreaming of moving it on and wouldn't be reading this thread!
They needed to pull one out of the box for the 50th anniversary and we knew this was as likely to happen as a bounce in AAPL shares. With a capable new chassis (look at the 991S Ring times), a higher revving and more power engine with a whole new set of suspension and calibration plus some tech trickery it was always going to be hard playing down the performance delta teats been created, and I dont think we've even seen half of it yet (performance data wise). I wouldn't bee surprised if Porsche ship this car standard on sport road tyres just to keep claimed times within reasonable limits.
I can here people calling BS as I write this but Ive never been anything but forthright in my threads. Porsche marketing have their hands full with the GT3RS. Its a 2014 unveil and they have spent the "money shot" in 2013 on the new 991 GT3. You will see a lighter exhaust, the light bucket seats every US customer seems so keen for, and maybe a composite front wing or rear fender. Im guessing 35kg in seats, 7kg in panel and 8kg in exhaust. If we are lucky a plastic rear window or lightweight glass but Im not sure that will fit into a "more useable car" design principle. If we see 50kg then my guess is we will see a claimed 50 bhp. I.e. claimed (and realistic) at 525 bhp but in all reality probably less than a true 30 bhp if the stock 991 GT3 is already understated on power. I think we will be using a 3.8 engine. There clearly a bit left in the design and I should say with an aftermarket exhaust and airbox and some small remapping the standard GT3 could push 500 bhp in any case.
So lets assume 30 real php, 45-50kg lighter with more aggressive tyres (dot rated) and suspension settings, some improved steering software and PDK mapping (which will probably be available as a firmware update to GT3 owners shortly thereafter). All the same stuff PTV+, 4WS will remain the same. A sparcer interior and a cage. Is this enough? I think it will be. Im sure all the above will reduce the ring time 3-4 seconds and knock teh 0-100 down by 0.2s.
However almost everything above you could get from thee stock GT3 with a new Ti Ackropov exhaust, Techart airbox, software download, bushes, Recaro Pole Position seats and fitting dot rated tyres. Not everything mind but a lot of it and change for 10k usd.
What you cant get is the look and here I think we will see the biggest difference. Much bigger wing, some aero appendages, new colours graphics and I cant help but think an extra duct or two will appear.
That's my take for the little its worth. Could be wrong of course. The no MT gearbox will be the biggest disappointment for many.
Your 3.8 GT3 is looking like a keeper now right?
I have it on good account that the biggest issue Porsche marketing face right now is playing down the GT3 performance envelope given the outgoing, limited edition (and expensive 4.0RS). Hence you have seen no ring times yet and when you do they will be on a street tyre (claim that suitable dot rated tyres for the car were not commercially available at time of testing).
AP has been quotes in the Evo video and now again saying the GT3s published output is understated. Its the first time Ive seen someone at Porsche use that in a launch. My guess is they are trying to ensure the 4.0RS customers do not loose the faith when the new cafe & coffee set buy a base GT3 that equals or beats the older car in all performance parameter. I cant see true afficonados caring too much frankly - if I was lucky+wealthy enough to own a 4.0RS I wouldn't even be dreaming of moving it on and wouldn't be reading this thread!
They needed to pull one out of the box for the 50th anniversary and we knew this was as likely to happen as a bounce in AAPL shares. With a capable new chassis (look at the 991S Ring times), a higher revving and more power engine with a whole new set of suspension and calibration plus some tech trickery it was always going to be hard playing down the performance delta teats been created, and I dont think we've even seen half of it yet (performance data wise). I wouldn't bee surprised if Porsche ship this car standard on sport road tyres just to keep claimed times within reasonable limits.
I can here people calling BS as I write this but Ive never been anything but forthright in my threads. Porsche marketing have their hands full with the GT3RS. Its a 2014 unveil and they have spent the "money shot" in 2013 on the new 991 GT3. You will see a lighter exhaust, the light bucket seats every US customer seems so keen for, and maybe a composite front wing or rear fender. Im guessing 35kg in seats, 7kg in panel and 8kg in exhaust. If we are lucky a plastic rear window or lightweight glass but Im not sure that will fit into a "more useable car" design principle. If we see 50kg then my guess is we will see a claimed 50 bhp. I.e. claimed (and realistic) at 525 bhp but in all reality probably less than a true 30 bhp if the stock 991 GT3 is already understated on power. I think we will be using a 3.8 engine. There clearly a bit left in the design and I should say with an aftermarket exhaust and airbox and some small remapping the standard GT3 could push 500 bhp in any case.
So lets assume 30 real php, 45-50kg lighter with more aggressive tyres (dot rated) and suspension settings, some improved steering software and PDK mapping (which will probably be available as a firmware update to GT3 owners shortly thereafter). All the same stuff PTV+, 4WS will remain the same. A sparcer interior and a cage. Is this enough? I think it will be. Im sure all the above will reduce the ring time 3-4 seconds and knock teh 0-100 down by 0.2s.
However almost everything above you could get from thee stock GT3 with a new Ti Ackropov exhaust, Techart airbox, software download, bushes, Recaro Pole Position seats and fitting dot rated tyres. Not everything mind but a lot of it and change for 10k usd.
What you cant get is the look and here I think we will see the biggest difference. Much bigger wing, some aero appendages, new colours graphics and I cant help but think an extra duct or two will appear.
That's my take for the little its worth. Could be wrong of course. The no MT gearbox will be the biggest disappointment for many.
Your 3.8 GT3 is looking like a keeper now right?
03-19-2013, 01:02 AM
#145
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think the RS is going to be very similar looking to the Cup - including the racy exterior and stripped interior without center console, carpets, headliner, etc. it will have carbon fenders, etc and have at least 510hp.
03-19-2013, 01:20 AM
#146
Rennlist Member
Wow GrantG! That's a big prediction but I like it when people nail their colours to the flag pole. Much more constructive than the GT3 bashing that been going on of late.
I agree the external asthetic will be much more "cartoon" i.e. loud. The Cup car gives some good indications of what we may see with PU wheel extensions and a big wing. I depart however on my opinion of how the interior will look. AP has been quotes only yesterday saying this generation will have more useability so I believe the center console will stay - it has to prop up the PDK stick and we are talking about a team "on limited resources" after all LOL! I believe we will simply see a more spartan interior typical of S variants bit with a nice new bucket seat.
As for power Im going on a limb here with 520/25 realistic bhp but playing the marketing card as if its true what AP says about GT3 making 493 bhp in reality then the marketing boys have backed themselves in a corner and need some headroom for the RS. The low back pressure Ti exhaust with some remapping and a slightly different cam profile should give them the 25+ bhp they need to get out of the hole. More importantly it would be nice to see some additional torque which is where I think they are falling behind so I predict another 8-12lbft through some cam, intake and manifold tweaks.
I agree the external asthetic will be much more "cartoon" i.e. loud. The Cup car gives some good indications of what we may see with PU wheel extensions and a big wing. I depart however on my opinion of how the interior will look. AP has been quotes only yesterday saying this generation will have more useability so I believe the center console will stay - it has to prop up the PDK stick and we are talking about a team "on limited resources" after all LOL! I believe we will simply see a more spartan interior typical of S variants bit with a nice new bucket seat.
As for power Im going on a limb here with 520/25 realistic bhp but playing the marketing card as if its true what AP says about GT3 making 493 bhp in reality then the marketing boys have backed themselves in a corner and need some headroom for the RS. The low back pressure Ti exhaust with some remapping and a slightly different cam profile should give them the 25+ bhp they need to get out of the hole. More importantly it would be nice to see some additional torque which is where I think they are falling behind so I predict another 8-12lbft through some cam, intake and manifold tweaks.
03-19-2013, 01:25 AM
#147
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As for power Im going on a limb here with 520/25 realistic bhp but playing the marketing card as if its true what AP says about GT3 making 493 bhp in reality then the marketing boys have backed themselves in a corner and need some headroom for the RS. The low back pressure Ti exhaust with some remapping and a slightly different cam profile should give them the 25+ bhp they need to get out of the hole. More importantly it would be nice to see some additional torque which is where I think they are falling behind so I predict another 8-12lbft through some cam, intake and manifold tweaks.
03-19-2013, 01:34 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
I hope you are correct and Im wrong Grant. I have no inside knowledge on this. One party believed connected to the factory has said elsewhere it stays at 3.8 and another party that supposedly have the inside skinny say 4.0.
My gut feel is they will stay 3.8. This is effectively a new engine (massively revised then) and I cant but help they will need to hold something back for the 991.2 GT3/RS. If they go 4.0L now they wont have the money shot for version 2.
The flip side says that if they are launching this with the 2014 Cup car (the RS will break cover in the press likely by December about the time the 2014 Cup spec is announced) and they use this as the opportunity I have been told they will to marry the motorsports product again with the GT3 road product then that would indicate a 4.0L is likely in both Cup and RS variants. If that is the case however I cant help but think they would be easily at 525 bhp (probably very conservatively) and again that limits their version 2.
Its a hard call. Ill stay with 3.8 but its a crab shoot which way it goes. Although I will be a 991 GT3 owner by then Im secretly hoping you are right to give the 997.2 3.8RS guys some positive news. Cant fix the MT thing though unfortunately....
P.S. The only thing Ive heard from a contact within the PAG outfit is that effectively apart from some detail, supplier and specification details the format for the RS is basically "bolted down".
My gut feel is they will stay 3.8. This is effectively a new engine (massively revised then) and I cant but help they will need to hold something back for the 991.2 GT3/RS. If they go 4.0L now they wont have the money shot for version 2.
The flip side says that if they are launching this with the 2014 Cup car (the RS will break cover in the press likely by December about the time the 2014 Cup spec is announced) and they use this as the opportunity I have been told they will to marry the motorsports product again with the GT3 road product then that would indicate a 4.0L is likely in both Cup and RS variants. If that is the case however I cant help but think they would be easily at 525 bhp (probably very conservatively) and again that limits their version 2.
Its a hard call. Ill stay with 3.8 but its a crab shoot which way it goes. Although I will be a 991 GT3 owner by then Im secretly hoping you are right to give the 997.2 3.8RS guys some positive news. Cant fix the MT thing though unfortunately....
P.S. The only thing Ive heard from a contact within the PAG outfit is that effectively apart from some detail, supplier and specification details the format for the RS is basically "bolted down".
03-19-2013, 01:57 AM
#149
Race Director
So let me get this straight! The new GT3 has closer to 500hp (according to article, they are greatly understating output), plus wide body, plus super dooper pdk, plus 4WS, plus latest advanced chassis, plus, plus... and its still only just matching the 4.0rs at best? So where exactly are the advances? I don't see them unless DD is more your thing.
With weightsavings expensive to achieve without exotic materials that will make prices jump like crazy, I can't see what they could possibly offer an RS customer beyond 30-45 hp and a whack sticker job...
With weightsavings expensive to achieve without exotic materials that will make prices jump like crazy, I can't see what they could possibly offer an RS customer beyond 30-45 hp and a whack sticker job...
Last edited by Mike in CA; 03-19-2013 at 02:13 AM.