MAJOR FAIL! No Sport Bucket Set Option (6 point harness seats) WOW!
03-23-2013, 01:05 PM
#331
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My post was not intended to absolve Porsche's decision not to offer the Sport Buckets in the US. Insurance companies and manufactures are part of the system. They don't really care about the regulations since they just pass the cost to the consumer and the consumer pays three times for the regulation. The tax cost to administer the regulation, the cost for the insurer to assess the risk the regulation and charge a fee, and the cost for the manufacturer to implement the regulation and build it into the car cost. It's pretty easy to do nothing when the game is rigged.
03-23-2013, 02:26 PM
#332
Race Director
I can't relate to the 991 seats but I have measured the Adaptive sport seats that came in my 997.2 and the Sport bucket seats. the seat as measured from your butt to the front edge of the seat cushion is about 1/2 -3/4 inch longer in the adaptive sport seats. However the more pronounced thigh support in the sport bucket more than makes up for the slightly shorter seat cushion. Adaptive sport seats are out of my 997 and Sport buckets are in. Adaptive sport seats are for sale as they will not go back in. I now have more support for this old back AND the car has lost lots of weight.
03-23-2013, 02:34 PM
#333
Race Director
Ed, I understand what you are saying, but I doubt that Porsche's lawyers can rest comfortably on not offering sport bucket seats as an 'insurance' policy when all of the advertising videos (on the US website) show the 991GT3 being used on a closed circuit. Isn't that enough to say that track use is encouraged? If they were really worried about track use, they shouldn't show the car with a guy timing laps around a closed circuit.
03-23-2013, 03:40 PM
#334
Race Director
Thread Starter
Porsche builds a great car no doubt...Porsche marketing is a total mess!
04-05-2013, 03:21 AM
#335
Compatibility of 'gt2' type sport buckets on 981, 991 & 991 gt3!
I just posted about this subject elsewhere on 991 gt3 forum. But for the record, it's worth repeating it on this thread once more!
"I also took the opportunity to ask Ric Knab at Suncoast about the compatibility of the 'gt2' type seats for the US specs 991 and 981's"
Question #2 - RE: Fact that PCNA has not homologated any type of 'sport bucket seat' for the MY2014 991 gt3 or any US spec 991 or 981 for that matter!
A) Will the existing 997 era gt2 sport bucket seat you sell (airbags/folding type) plug into a 991 or 981 Porsche and work 100%? Airbags & passenger seat sensors work?
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...=2010GT3_seats
B) If answer to #1 is 'no', will the current gt2 seat available currently in Europe/ROW be able to be imported by YOU, sold to us in the USA, & plug into US spec MY2013/MY2014 991, 981 or 991 gt3 and WORK (airbags, passenger seat sensors, and no fault codes to light up the instruments panel)????? If the answer to #2 is also 'no', can you give us an explanation as to why not? Is it the electrical wires on the 991 that are different? Is it BUS interface? What is the reason?
Answer from Knab: "We tested the 997 GT2 bucket seat into a 991, the wiring was incredibly different. Once we saw that, we decided not to investigate any further. I don't have specifics on this, but we made a wise decision to walk away, and not attempt to modify any wiring. We didn't check the mounting points to see if they were compatible. So again, my professional opinion is that it's not possible to install the 997 seats in a 991/981. I'm sure people will try, maybe it could be done with wiring modifications or PIWIS. I can't help with that sort of retrofit. I haven't heard anything official on the new sport bucket seats, but if Porsche won't ship a car to the USA with the seats installed, they probably won't allow us to order them. At the moment there are no retrofit seats, so I can't get a plug-and-play seat at the moment anyway. Building the seat, piece-by-piece wouldn't be possible for us, that's not something I can help with. If someone is interested in these seats, all we can do is wait and see if Porsche releases them in the future. Keep in mind, the 997 model was launched in 2004/2005, the GT2 seat didn't appear until 2008. So that was three years into production before the retrofit was available, and three years until it was an option for US models."
We have already touched on this result (Sunset trying to fit a 997 gt2 seat on a 991) on a different thread started by mdrums - 'Major Fail -No Sport Bucket Seat Option'. So where does that leaves us, PCNA's US 991/981 customers? Will Gert at Carnewal be allowed by Porsche to ship the current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat to US and will that current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat plug into a US 991, 981 or 991 gt3 & work correctly? Or did Porsche designed the electronics of the US spec 991/981 in such a way that the current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat will NOT work and will NEVER work with it? Indeed, no other 'bucket' seat will fully work until they decide to issue a US approved 991/981 'gt2 type' seat for this market? This is what I am afraid of and I think that is a topic for further discussion on this forum!"
Saludos,
Eduardo
"I also took the opportunity to ask Ric Knab at Suncoast about the compatibility of the 'gt2' type seats for the US specs 991 and 981's"
Question #2 - RE: Fact that PCNA has not homologated any type of 'sport bucket seat' for the MY2014 991 gt3 or any US spec 991 or 981 for that matter!
A) Will the existing 997 era gt2 sport bucket seat you sell (airbags/folding type) plug into a 991 or 981 Porsche and work 100%? Airbags & passenger seat sensors work?
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...=2010GT3_seats
B) If answer to #1 is 'no', will the current gt2 seat available currently in Europe/ROW be able to be imported by YOU, sold to us in the USA, & plug into US spec MY2013/MY2014 991, 981 or 991 gt3 and WORK (airbags, passenger seat sensors, and no fault codes to light up the instruments panel)????? If the answer to #2 is also 'no', can you give us an explanation as to why not? Is it the electrical wires on the 991 that are different? Is it BUS interface? What is the reason?
Answer from Knab: "We tested the 997 GT2 bucket seat into a 991, the wiring was incredibly different. Once we saw that, we decided not to investigate any further. I don't have specifics on this, but we made a wise decision to walk away, and not attempt to modify any wiring. We didn't check the mounting points to see if they were compatible. So again, my professional opinion is that it's not possible to install the 997 seats in a 991/981. I'm sure people will try, maybe it could be done with wiring modifications or PIWIS. I can't help with that sort of retrofit. I haven't heard anything official on the new sport bucket seats, but if Porsche won't ship a car to the USA with the seats installed, they probably won't allow us to order them. At the moment there are no retrofit seats, so I can't get a plug-and-play seat at the moment anyway. Building the seat, piece-by-piece wouldn't be possible for us, that's not something I can help with. If someone is interested in these seats, all we can do is wait and see if Porsche releases them in the future. Keep in mind, the 997 model was launched in 2004/2005, the GT2 seat didn't appear until 2008. So that was three years into production before the retrofit was available, and three years until it was an option for US models."
We have already touched on this result (Sunset trying to fit a 997 gt2 seat on a 991) on a different thread started by mdrums - 'Major Fail -No Sport Bucket Seat Option'. So where does that leaves us, PCNA's US 991/981 customers? Will Gert at Carnewal be allowed by Porsche to ship the current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat to US and will that current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat plug into a US 991, 981 or 991 gt3 & work correctly? Or did Porsche designed the electronics of the US spec 991/981 in such a way that the current Euro 991/981 'gt2 type' seat will NOT work and will NEVER work with it? Indeed, no other 'bucket' seat will fully work until they decide to issue a US approved 991/981 'gt2 type' seat for this market? This is what I am afraid of and I think that is a topic for further discussion on this forum!"
Saludos,
Eduardo
04-05-2013, 05:30 AM
#336
04-05-2013, 08:38 PM
#337
Lest we forget, the 2007 solution was to mount 996 GT3 seats and not worry about the airbag issue. That is again an option although way less than ideal, especially for a street-driven car.
04-06-2013, 11:39 AM
#338
Race Director
Thread Starter
Yes but the 2007 GT3 I don't think came with stock seats with air bags in them. So no legal issues on the street
04-06-2013, 01:15 PM
#339
04-06-2013, 11:20 PM
#340
Correct. Airbags were incorporated into seats starting with the first 997's when that model was introduced in MY2005. Thus 'Sport leather/alcantara seats' with airbags were 'standard' on US spec MY2007 & MY2008 gt3 & gt3 RS. In MY2008, Porsche introduced the 'sport bucket seat' (folding; airbags) on their US spec gt2's, but did not offered it on their MY2008 US spec gt3 or gt3 RS! Had they done so, these would probably be known today as 'gt3' seats and it would make our current appeal to PCNA even more poignant!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Saludos,
Eduardo
04-06-2013, 11:28 PM
#341
Race Director
Thread Starter
04-24-2013, 04:21 PM
#342
One more piece in the puzzle
I ran this morning into Detlev von Platen, CEO of PCNA, at the Le Meridien Hotel in Stuttgart where we were both staying. I was there for the start of my 10 day '2013 Guys Only Tour' - I visited the Audi R8 assembly plant at Neckarsulm yesterday and went to the Porsche Museum today - and Detlev was there on one of his regular visits to headquarters! I have met Detlev three times before - at the 2009 & 2012 PCA Parade and IV Rennsport at Laguna! He specifically remembered my 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa, which won the coveted 'Honorary Judges Choice' trophy at the '12 Parade. He was one of three judges that made that selection among all cars entered at the Concours. The other two judges were Dr. Wolfgang Porsche and Hans Peter Porsche who were also attending the Parade! So my Porsche enthusiast 'bona fides' established, I proceeded to go from pleasant small talk to the question that many on this forum have been concerned with since Geneva '13!
I asked him point blank about the lack of a sport bucket seat option on the US 991 gt3. He said they are working on it and will be providing a seat in approx. one year's time for our market! I asked if it would coincide with the introduction of the gt3 RS in the US. He smiled and said 'yes' and 'don't tell anyone'. So I want you all to keep it 'secret', ok!
I asked why PCNA didn't get the bucket seat certified for the MY2014 gt3. He said that there were some issues re: folding aspect of the 'gt2' sport bucket seat that was causing problems. To make sure he understood I was not an easy mark, I told him that my 2012 Spyder had a folding 'gt2' seat that was fully certified for the US and it looked identical to the European 'gt2' sport bucket seats I had seen last week on a MY2013 German 991 at Zuffenhausen (photo attached). He quickly had a comeback - US regulations had changed and that seat (as was optioned in MY2012 in the US) could not be offered on the 991/981 without modification. And that is what they were working on! I report...you decide!
The fact that he assured me that a sport buckets would appear on the US 991 gt3 RS (probable MY2015) is consistent with what some of us (e.g. me) have been saying for a while on this forum! Why PCNA didn't anticipate the problems with the changing US certification rules, I'll let you ponder on that matter! As many of you know, I have a theory as to why PCNA 'fumbled' the ball! Regardless my private speculation, this is Detlev's version of the sport bucket seat 'question' as of this morning and I take him at his word!
After this private talk at the breakfast buffet at Le Meridien, Detlev was approached by the tour organizer - Steve Austin - and asked to say a few words to our travel contingent of 23 Americans (which include at least 10 Porsche owners!). He stepped into our tour bus just before we left for the Porscheplatz and used the microphone to address our small group. Interestingly, he said the purpose of this particular trip this week was to go to Weissach and test drive some of the 'exciting' new products that PCNA will have to sell to us in the USA within the next few years! I suspect the 991 gt3 RS will be one of them!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Presently now in Munich
I asked him point blank about the lack of a sport bucket seat option on the US 991 gt3. He said they are working on it and will be providing a seat in approx. one year's time for our market! I asked if it would coincide with the introduction of the gt3 RS in the US. He smiled and said 'yes' and 'don't tell anyone'. So I want you all to keep it 'secret', ok!
I asked why PCNA didn't get the bucket seat certified for the MY2014 gt3. He said that there were some issues re: folding aspect of the 'gt2' sport bucket seat that was causing problems. To make sure he understood I was not an easy mark, I told him that my 2012 Spyder had a folding 'gt2' seat that was fully certified for the US and it looked identical to the European 'gt2' sport bucket seats I had seen last week on a MY2013 German 991 at Zuffenhausen (photo attached). He quickly had a comeback - US regulations had changed and that seat (as was optioned in MY2012 in the US) could not be offered on the 991/981 without modification. And that is what they were working on! I report...you decide!
The fact that he assured me that a sport buckets would appear on the US 991 gt3 RS (probable MY2015) is consistent with what some of us (e.g. me) have been saying for a while on this forum! Why PCNA didn't anticipate the problems with the changing US certification rules, I'll let you ponder on that matter! As many of you know, I have a theory as to why PCNA 'fumbled' the ball! Regardless my private speculation, this is Detlev's version of the sport bucket seat 'question' as of this morning and I take him at his word!
After this private talk at the breakfast buffet at Le Meridien, Detlev was approached by the tour organizer - Steve Austin - and asked to say a few words to our travel contingent of 23 Americans (which include at least 10 Porsche owners!). He stepped into our tour bus just before we left for the Porscheplatz and used the microphone to address our small group. Interestingly, he said the purpose of this particular trip this week was to go to Weissach and test drive some of the 'exciting' new products that PCNA will have to sell to us in the USA within the next few years! I suspect the 991 gt3 RS will be one of them!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Presently now in Munich
04-24-2013, 04:29 PM
#343
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I ran this morning into Detlev von Platen, CEO of PCNA, at the Le Meridien Hotel in Stuttgart where we were both staying. I was there for the start of my 10 day '2013 Guys Only Tour' - I visited the Audi R8 assembly plant at Neckarsulm yesterday and went to the Porsche Museum today - and Detlev was there on one of his regular visits to headquarters! I have met Detlev three times before - at the 2009 & 2012 PCA Parade and IV Rennsport at Laguna! He specifically remembered my 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa, which won the coveted 'Honorary Judges Choice' trophy at the '12 Parade. He was one of three judges that made that selection among all cars entered at the Concours. The other two judges were Dr. Wolfgang Porsche and Hans Peter Porsche who were also attending the Parade! So my Porsche enthusiast 'bona fides' established, I proceeded to go from pleasant small talk to the question that many on this forum have been concerned with since Geneva '13!
I asked him point blank about the lack of a sport bucket seat option on the US 991 gt3. He said they are working on it and will be providing a seat in approx. one year's time for our market! I asked if it would coincide with the introduction of the gt3 RS in the US. He smiled and said 'yes' and 'don't tell anyone'. So I want you all to keep it 'secret', ok!
I asked why PCNA didn't get the bucket seat certified for the MY2014 gt3. He said that there were some issues re: folding aspect of the 'gt2' sport bucket seat that was causing problems. To make sure he understood I was not an easy mark, I told him that my 2012 Spyder had a folding 'gt2' seat that was fully certified for the US and it looked identical to the European 'gt2' sport bucket seats I had seen last week on a MY2013 German 991 at Zuffenhausen (photo attached). He quickly had a comeback - US regulations had changed and that seat (as was optioned in MY2012 in the US) could not be offered on the 991/981 without modification. And that is what they were working on! I report...you decide!
The fact that he assured me that a sport buckets would appear on the US 991 gt3 RS (probable MY2015) is consistent with what some of us (e.g. me) have been saying for a while on this forum! Why PCNA didn't anticipate the problems with the changing US certification rules, I'll let you ponder on that matter! As many of you know, I have a theory as to why PCNA 'fumbled' the ball! Regardless my private speculation, this is Detlev's version of the sport bucket seat 'question' as of this morning and I take him at his word!
After this private talk at the breakfast buffet at Le Meridien, Detlev was approached by the tour organizer - Steve Austin - and asked to say a few words to our travel contingent of 23 Americans (which include at least 10 Porsche owners!). He stepped into our tour bus just before we left for the Porscheplatz and used the microphone to address our small group. Interestingly, he said the purpose of this particular trip this week was to go to Weissach and test drive some of the 'exciting' new products that PCNA will have to sell to us in the USA within the next few years! I suspect the 991 gt3 RS will be one of them!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Presently now in Munich
I asked him point blank about the lack of a sport bucket seat option on the US 991 gt3. He said they are working on it and will be providing a seat in approx. one year's time for our market! I asked if it would coincide with the introduction of the gt3 RS in the US. He smiled and said 'yes' and 'don't tell anyone'. So I want you all to keep it 'secret', ok!
I asked why PCNA didn't get the bucket seat certified for the MY2014 gt3. He said that there were some issues re: folding aspect of the 'gt2' sport bucket seat that was causing problems. To make sure he understood I was not an easy mark, I told him that my 2012 Spyder had a folding 'gt2' seat that was fully certified for the US and it looked identical to the European 'gt2' sport bucket seats I had seen last week on a MY2013 German 991 at Zuffenhausen (photo attached). He quickly had a comeback - US regulations had changed and that seat (as was optioned in MY2012 in the US) could not be offered on the 991/981 without modification. And that is what they were working on! I report...you decide!
The fact that he assured me that a sport buckets would appear on the US 991 gt3 RS (probable MY2015) is consistent with what some of us (e.g. me) have been saying for a while on this forum! Why PCNA didn't anticipate the problems with the changing US certification rules, I'll let you ponder on that matter! As many of you know, I have a theory as to why PCNA 'fumbled' the ball! Regardless my private speculation, this is Detlev's version of the sport bucket seat 'question' as of this morning and I take him at his word!
After this private talk at the breakfast buffet at Le Meridien, Detlev was approached by the tour organizer - Steve Austin - and asked to say a few words to our travel contingent of 23 Americans (which include at least 10 Porsche owners!). He stepped into our tour bus just before we left for the Porscheplatz and used the microphone to address our small group. Interestingly, he said the purpose of this particular trip this week was to go to Weissach and test drive some of the 'exciting' new products that PCNA will have to sell to us in the USA within the next few years! I suspect the 991 gt3 RS will be one of them!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Presently now in Munich
I guess I will wait another year or so, until I decide
Who knows what the RS will bring to the table
Mike
04-25-2013, 12:27 AM
#344
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Good to know. I would like to know if there is even a remote possibility of getting a real trans in the GT3, or at least the RS. Thats the real way for Porsche to get me to order a car.
04-27-2013, 04:09 PM
#345
Nordschleife Master
I am so disappointed...MAJOR FAIL FROM PORSCHE for not offering the Sport Bucket seats on a track orientated car!
AP claims the 991 GT3 is track orientated but yet leave out the #1 part of a real track orientated car and a major safety part of the car on the track. Geesh real stupid move AP and Porsche.
My local dealer put in a order for a 991 GT3 for me...no obligation. I just told him to forget it and remove me from the list due to not having these seats which on the track even at my level are an absolute must have.
I can't put aftermarket seats in the car and delete the side impact air bag system because with insurance company's that is considered as tampering with a federally mandated car safety system. If I was to get in an accident on the street my insurance would be VOID.
AP claims the 991 GT3 is track orientated but yet leave out the #1 part of a real track orientated car and a major safety part of the car on the track. Geesh real stupid move AP and Porsche.
My local dealer put in a order for a 991 GT3 for me...no obligation. I just told him to forget it and remove me from the list due to not having these seats which on the track even at my level are an absolute must have.
I can't put aftermarket seats in the car and delete the side impact air bag system because with insurance company's that is considered as tampering with a federally mandated car safety system. If I was to get in an accident on the street my insurance would be VOID.
If you want to know what they'll look like take a look at the seats in the 918 Weissach