Mike in CA

I get that you have a motivation to teach in involving cars, I just don't get how you can make a determination about whether a car is involving or not until you have driven it. You may be one of the most objective people here, but as an engineer I know one can't reach an objective conclusion without empirical data. That's not parroting the party line, it's just a fact.

Veloce Raptor

OK, that is a fair point. I will give you that one!

mike2727

Just read on a German website that the GT3 will be on the German configurator on Friday, not clear if they ment tomorrow or next week Friday

My guess next week Friday, but will check later tonight if something shows up

Mike

Manifold

Involvement is pretty subjective, so it depends on what one likes. Personally, I like to have all my limbs working, a clutch pedal that offers some resistance, having to find the gear when shifting, a talkative steering wheel, etc. But raw speed can also be involving, and I anticipate that the 991 GT3 will be very fast, with that speed being relatively accessible to a lot of drivers. Of course, higher speed also means higher risk, and one can question how much speed is really needed in a car that won't be raced.

911SLOW

You know what Chris, I think that I have criticized Porsche's marketing decision to implement these CL wheels in a street car enough, perhaps a bit more than enough.
They are by definition a silly idea to begin with.
No need for timed pit stops = no CLs. Period. No debate.

Furthermore, they are actually heavier, not so fast on a change, not bulletproof and we have them here today because someone made a research, probably suggesting that potential buyers would associate them with race cars from TV and, as a result, Porsche would sell 451,3 more cars per year or something equally disturbing.

I also happen to prefer a manual gearbox over a double clutch or F1 or any other autobox , any day of the week.
Since I am not racing, I don't really care to extract that last second. I just am a below average driver who enjoys the odd B roads and a few track days. No opponents , no winners. No absolute times. Feel over speed.


That being said, and because I kind of understand Porsche's reasoning behind those changes, at this point, I would have settled with both of these features that I loathe, as long as Porsche hadn't decided to save me. A fair exchange I think.


I don't want to be saved! not by Porsche , not by a government, not by the EU, not by a rule, not by anyone.

You want CLs? put them. I'll find a way to deal with it.

You want only PDK? Fine , give me one that does what I want all the time. I want to stall the car, allow me to make a fool of myself.
I want to accelerate in 7th gear from 11mph, let me die in that dual carriageway from the track coming from behind.

In the same spirit;
you want to compete with the GTR in electronics and gismos and the Prius in consumption? Excellent. Do that too, all the better, but please design , develop and build the car with these systems off.

Make it work better than before through pure mechanical advancement, better suspension, less weight, good geometry.


You also want this bloody self correcting electric steering to save the planet , put that one too.
Give me an option to turn it off and make it work with a flat algorithm. No changes in assistance, no help, no corrections, no pulses, nothing. Just fast enough and with some feel from the road if possible.

Put a big skull in a button , a 10 inches tall illuminated danger sign, and allow me to press it on demand.

Also make every single electronic system with an off button. Real off button. Put more danger signs. I like them.

Allow the buyer to choose if he will round the neverbeentherering in 7 minutes with all the systems on or will crash entering Antoniusbuche like an idiot.


Simple.


Now where's that liability waiver, where do I sign and please do make mine in black and with a race proven engine.

Thanks!

stevecolletti

I couldn't agree more - the trend has not been good for 'involving' Porsches over the last several years. As GT-car owners/fans most on this forum have probably missed out on the new, 'mushy' brake pedal (not like that on our old 986 Boxster Ss), wimpy clutches and unkillable drive-off assist - and these were on Cayman Rs and Spyders.

I drove the 991 Carerra, Carrera S and the Panamera GTS at the Porsche Roadshow and I thought the Panamera provided the best sports car driving experience of the three (great for the Panamera, not so great for the 991).

Any 997-version I've driven has been more involving than those two 991s. It is hard to believe that Porsche will reverse that course with the new 991 GT3...

Jon70

Just found this on a UK website (not Porsche):
"The new 991 model Porsche 911 GT3 will debut at the Geneva Motor Show 2013; expect the first official details late on 4 March."

Mike in CA

I agree, it's very subjective. And being subjective, there is no "right" involvement; at the least someone's definition of involvement one way or the other doesn't make them a bad person. But you still need to drive a car before you can decide whether it meets your involvement criteria, and for that you need the actual car, not rumors and assumptions.

BTW, is there some reason the 991 GT3 won't/can't be raced/tracked in the same way that the current street GT3 is?

Manifold

I agree that it needs to be driven before deciding. And I'm by no means ruling out the possibility of getting one.

I'm sure it can be set up for racing, but I doubt that many buyers will race them, in which case one needs to ask what's really needed/wanted in a DE car. Or if someone just wants to drive it on the road, I'd argue that it's massive overkill for that purpose.

mike2727

A GT3 for street use only would be overkill, and you would IMO be better off buying a C2 or C2S, and save $ 20k+ in the process

I cannot imagine that Porsche will release a GT3 that won't be a very capable DE car out the box.

Mike

Nizer

The same but different. One provides great feedback and feel, the other not so much.

Nizer

They must be sourcing their focus groups at Starbuck's...

Macca

On the subject of the manual transmission, I know two local owners that have now taken delivery of 7 speed 991S and one who has the 991S PDK. Both 7 speed manual owners have now tried the thirds PDK and have quietly confessed they wish they had have gone PDK. Remember all three are multiple Porsche owners (one also has manual 997TT & Cayman) and all three run their cars hard in DE, tarmac rally and gymkhana. However for all three the 991S is daily transport. here is a direct copy and past from one of them....

"The 991 has been great, it is really a big step up from the 997 in all sorts of ways, and especially the handling. My only regret was getting the manual as with 7 forward gears I’m finding it a bit much with a gate that has so many slots you sometimes get the wrong one."

Ive heard similar comments on other boards. Also many complain the gearbox is "vague" not as direct or enjoyable as the outgoing 997 manual box.

Sure, if we assume a whole new manual box for the 991 GT3RS then all good (assuming they can get rid of the overdrive gear and improve the feel of the box). But if the only option were PDK-S (remember no one here has tried it yet) or the current 7 speed manual then the decision I dont believe would be as clear cut as we would like to believe....

Veloce Raptor

or more likely Bed Bath & Beyond

Macca

Please can you tell me which car configurator people believe the GT3 will first appear on? Is this the German one or the US one?