991.2 Gt3 to 718 Clubsport
12-28-2019, 09:03 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Good question. Goal is to have a proper racecar that gives me good intro to next level of performance. I will be working with a pro coach to set up the car and improve my driving. Safety is also a consideration as a true factory race car is clearly safer than a street car with a half cage.
Finally lap times are not super important but from my research I think I would be 1.5-3 seconds faster in the 718 at some of the big tracks like VIR than in my Gt3 on Hoosiers. I don’t want something that is so fast that It is not fun at DE’s with a mix of cars (ie 991.2 cup car)
Finally lap times are not super important but from my research I think I would be 1.5-3 seconds faster in the 718 at some of the big tracks like VIR than in my Gt3 on Hoosiers. I don’t want something that is so fast that It is not fun at DE’s with a mix of cars (ie 991.2 cup car)
12-28-2019, 10:41 AM
#32
Race Director
I posted my review of the 718 gt4 CS elsewhere so pardon my repetition.. just thought I could add some value for the OP.
In the Porsche world, I've driven gt3 RS, 911R, GT3 manual and CGT on track.. At Road atlanta specifically, I was all over the place timingwise with those cars, but most of all, I'm not able to be as consistent as I want and I'm not even close to probing the limits.
When I drove the 718 GT4 ClubSport, within one session I was doing 1:33's, about 2 seconds off the Porsche pro driver lap time for that car. I'm only saying this to highlight that it's a simply amazing platform which is super easy to drive, it brings all the driving feels and feedback pleasure into focus. You can't really compare all the other street cars on track with a prepped racer on slicks like the GT4CS.. it's so precise, you can really probe its limits repeatedly, you can attack the curbs with it... it allows you to get into an real rhythm when you remove all that weight and distill the feedback down to what the tires and suspension are trying to tell you. the braking and corner entry is otherworldly... not quite open wheel racer level but you can trust the car fully and start using corner entry to your advantage with on the limit trail braking and turn-in. The fun factor (and the safety factor with a full roll cage) are through the roof compared to the road cars. The 981 GT4 CS platform really suffered in the engine power department, falling completely flat in the top of the rev range.. the 718 on the other hand is a completely different animal, with great progressive and continuous power delivery all the way to redline. Engine matches the chassis perfectly now.
After driving it I started wondering what is the point of a gt3/GT3RS after all. road cars which are good on track are somewhat boring and over capable on the road but they are not really exceptional on track. The smart move is just to buy a dedicated track car like the 718GT4CS and a Porsche Cayenne suv to tow it with. Comfortable on road, and unbeatable on track.
If you're in the market for a CS or really any dedicated track car, don't hesitate for a second.. a dedicated machine is the way to do it, and if you can swing a GT4CS, it's laugh out loud fun, and the car almost teaches you how to drive.
Thanks again to the kind CS owner who offered his brand new track car to get my feedback that day.
In the Porsche world, I've driven gt3 RS, 911R, GT3 manual and CGT on track.. At Road atlanta specifically, I was all over the place timingwise with those cars, but most of all, I'm not able to be as consistent as I want and I'm not even close to probing the limits.
When I drove the 718 GT4 ClubSport, within one session I was doing 1:33's, about 2 seconds off the Porsche pro driver lap time for that car. I'm only saying this to highlight that it's a simply amazing platform which is super easy to drive, it brings all the driving feels and feedback pleasure into focus. You can't really compare all the other street cars on track with a prepped racer on slicks like the GT4CS.. it's so precise, you can really probe its limits repeatedly, you can attack the curbs with it... it allows you to get into an real rhythm when you remove all that weight and distill the feedback down to what the tires and suspension are trying to tell you. the braking and corner entry is otherworldly... not quite open wheel racer level but you can trust the car fully and start using corner entry to your advantage with on the limit trail braking and turn-in. The fun factor (and the safety factor with a full roll cage) are through the roof compared to the road cars. The 981 GT4 CS platform really suffered in the engine power department, falling completely flat in the top of the rev range.. the 718 on the other hand is a completely different animal, with great progressive and continuous power delivery all the way to redline. Engine matches the chassis perfectly now.
After driving it I started wondering what is the point of a gt3/GT3RS after all. road cars which are good on track are somewhat boring and over capable on the road but they are not really exceptional on track. The smart move is just to buy a dedicated track car like the 718GT4CS and a Porsche Cayenne suv to tow it with. Comfortable on road, and unbeatable on track.
If you're in the market for a CS or really any dedicated track car, don't hesitate for a second.. a dedicated machine is the way to do it, and if you can swing a GT4CS, it's laugh out loud fun, and the car almost teaches you how to drive.
Thanks again to the kind CS owner who offered his brand new track car to get my feedback that day.
Last edited by CAlexio; 12-28-2019 at 11:06 AM.
The following 4 users liked this post by CAlexio:
12-28-2019, 10:46 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Good question. Goal is to have a proper racecar that gives me good intro to next level of performance. I will be working with a pro coach to set up the car and improve my driving. Safety is also a consideration as a true factory race car is clearly safer than a street car with a half cage.
Finally lap times are not super important but from my research I think I would be 1.5-3 seconds faster in the 718 at some of the big tracks like VIR than in my Gt3 on Hoosiers. I don’t want something that is so fast that It is not fun at DE’s with a mix of cars (ie 991.2 cup car)
Finally lap times are not super important but from my research I think I would be 1.5-3 seconds faster in the 718 at some of the big tracks like VIR than in my Gt3 on Hoosiers. I don’t want something that is so fast that It is not fun at DE’s with a mix of cars (ie 991.2 cup car)
I would like to own a 718CS as well but I find my Radical faster and much cheaper to run... Tires are cheap, engine rebuild is like 10K$, I self maintain it...
The only downside is your last sentence (driving with slow cars in DE). You have to drive with faster cars to have fun and learn (I'm still adapting to the downforce)
12-28-2019, 11:37 AM
#34
[quote=CAlexio]
Thank you for you fulsome review of the Clubsport and for providing differences between the 981 and 718 - happy to hear that your view is that the 718 Clubsport power delivery is progressive and not underwhelming.
In any event the 718 Clubsport will be sharing track duty with my 675LT for PCA DE's - can't wait to see if the 718 Clubsport will cut it in such incredible company
Thank you for you fulsome review of the Clubsport and for providing differences between the 981 and 718 - happy to hear that your view is that the 718 Clubsport power delivery is progressive and not underwhelming.
In any event the 718 Clubsport will be sharing track duty with my 675LT for PCA DE's - can't wait to see if the 718 Clubsport will cut it in such incredible company
12-28-2019, 11:46 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Dumb question probably, but where do you buy a 718 Clubsport? Through your local dealer or ? Current pricing? Just wondering how much this damn hobby is going to cost me. haha
12-28-2019, 11:59 AM
#36
12-28-2019, 12:00 PM
#37
Originally Posted by joejenie
Dumb question probably, but where do you buy a 718 Clubsport? Through your local dealer or ? Current pricing? Just wondering how much this damn hobby is going to cost me. haha
In terms of cost, including parts package, shipping, customs, duties and other items that have to be added to the MSRP, cost for MR version is comparable to a new 991.2 GT3RS. But since it can't be insured for street use financing has to be 100% equity (or at least in Canada).
12-28-2019, 12:11 PM
#38
In the US, purchase is through Porsche Motorsport North America (PMNA). The sales contact is Meagan Sabato, 770 290 7082. Competion model is 185k base and approx. 240k including shipping, duty taxes and spares package. Track day model is 165k base.
12-28-2019, 02:58 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by kkabba
Confused about the LOL, but a blown 991.2 GT3 4.0 engine to replace with labour and tax will be around $100k. I know of 2 instances that happened on track. Yes warranty covers unless money shift.
And if you don't have a trailer and need "arrive and drive" services and also wish to have track support for making real time adjustments to wheel swaps, alignment, suspension/shocks setup, pressures, data analysis etc, then it will add material incremental cost to your w/end DE.
And if you don't have a trailer and need "arrive and drive" services and also wish to have track support for making real time adjustments to wheel swaps, alignment, suspension/shocks setup, pressures, data analysis etc, then it will add material incremental cost to your w/end DE.
Would love a CS, a couple of the summaries above make it sound very compelling.
My dream is still that PAG makes a club sport version of the 3RS as they did with the 2RS.
12-28-2019, 03:31 PM
#41
Originally Posted by signes
Was my (poor) attempt at humor. Biggest point was taking issue w cost of an engine replacement which is nowhere near USD100k. Not sure about elsewhere but don't need to rehash it.
Would love a CS, a couple of the summaries above make it sound very compelling.
My dream is still that PAG makes a club sport version of the 3RS as they did with the 2RS.
Would love a CS, a couple of the summaries above make it sound very compelling.
My dream is still that PAG makes a club sport version of the 3RS as they did with the 2RS.
I considered to jump right into a cup car and was strongly advised by pro drivers and pro instructors to get my feet wet first with a clubsport. My understanding is that cup cars can even be equipped with ABS these days which is helpful for race car noobs but they require a lot more track suppot.
12-28-2019, 04:13 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Would a clubsport version of a 3RS be much different than a cup car?
I considered to jump right into a cup car and was strongly advised by pro drivers and pro instructors to get my feet wet first with a clubsport. My understanding is that cup cars can even be equipped with ABS these days which is helpful for race car noobs but they require a lot more track suppot.
I considered to jump right into a cup car and was strongly advised by pro drivers and pro instructors to get my feet wet first with a clubsport. My understanding is that cup cars can even be equipped with ABS these days which is helpful for race car noobs but they require a lot more track suppot.
12-28-2019, 04:36 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Great thread. I haven't tracked a 981 or 718 CS yet. I've tracked 997 and 991 Gt3/Rs. The 991 is a hell of a capable platform but gets boring and numb to me imo. The 997 is a blast (so much more "feel") but not sure if it's the smartest thing to keep hammering them at this point. I need to get behind the wheel of a CS and see if it brings back some of the feel a 997 had but in a more modern/bullet-proof PDK platform. Everyone i talk to says I'll never look back but I've learned my butt In the chair is the only real test that matters.
12-28-2019, 04:42 PM
#44
I posted my review of the 718 gt4 CS elsewhere so pardon my repetition.. just thought I could add some value for the OP.
In the Porsche world, I've driven gt3 RS, 911R, GT3 manual and CGT on track.. At Road atlanta specifically, I was all over the place timingwise with those cars, but most of all, I'm not able to be as consistent as I want and I'm not even close to probing the limits.
When I drove the 718 GT4 ClubSport, within one session I was doing 1:33's, about 2 seconds off the Porsche pro driver lap time for that car. I'm only saying this to highlight that it's a simply amazing platform which is super easy to drive, it brings all the driving feels and feedback pleasure into focus. You can't really compare all the other street cars on track with a prepped racer on slicks like the GT4CS.. it's so precise, you can really probe its limits repeatedly, you can attack the curbs with it... it allows you to get into an real rhythm when you remove all that weight and distill the feedback down to what the tires and suspension are trying to tell you. the braking and corner entry is otherworldly... not quite open wheel racer level but you can trust the car fully and start using corner entry to your advantage with on the limit trail braking and turn-in. The fun factor (and the safety factor with a full roll cage) are through the roof compared to the road cars. The 981 GT4 CS platform really suffered in the engine power department, falling completely flat in the top of the rev range.. the 718 on the other hand is a completely different animal, with great progressive and continuous power delivery all the way to redline. Engine matches the chassis perfectly now.
After driving it I started wondering what is the point of a gt3/GT3RS after all. road cars which are good on track are somewhat boring and over capable on the road but they are not really exceptional on track. The smart move is just to buy a dedicated track car like the 718GT4CS and a Porsche Cayenne suv to tow it with. Comfortable on road, and unbeatable on track.
If you're in the market for a CS or really any dedicated track car, don't hesitate for a second.. a dedicated machine is the way to do it, and if you can swing a GT4CS, it's laugh out loud fun, and the car almost teaches you how to drive.
Thanks again to the kind CS owner who offered his brand new track car to get my feedback that day.
In the Porsche world, I've driven gt3 RS, 911R, GT3 manual and CGT on track.. At Road atlanta specifically, I was all over the place timingwise with those cars, but most of all, I'm not able to be as consistent as I want and I'm not even close to probing the limits.
When I drove the 718 GT4 ClubSport, within one session I was doing 1:33's, about 2 seconds off the Porsche pro driver lap time for that car. I'm only saying this to highlight that it's a simply amazing platform which is super easy to drive, it brings all the driving feels and feedback pleasure into focus. You can't really compare all the other street cars on track with a prepped racer on slicks like the GT4CS.. it's so precise, you can really probe its limits repeatedly, you can attack the curbs with it... it allows you to get into an real rhythm when you remove all that weight and distill the feedback down to what the tires and suspension are trying to tell you. the braking and corner entry is otherworldly... not quite open wheel racer level but you can trust the car fully and start using corner entry to your advantage with on the limit trail braking and turn-in. The fun factor (and the safety factor with a full roll cage) are through the roof compared to the road cars. The 981 GT4 CS platform really suffered in the engine power department, falling completely flat in the top of the rev range.. the 718 on the other hand is a completely different animal, with great progressive and continuous power delivery all the way to redline. Engine matches the chassis perfectly now.
After driving it I started wondering what is the point of a gt3/GT3RS after all. road cars which are good on track are somewhat boring and over capable on the road but they are not really exceptional on track. The smart move is just to buy a dedicated track car like the 718GT4CS and a Porsche Cayenne suv to tow it with. Comfortable on road, and unbeatable on track.
If you're in the market for a CS or really any dedicated track car, don't hesitate for a second.. a dedicated machine is the way to do it, and if you can swing a GT4CS, it's laugh out loud fun, and the car almost teaches you how to drive.
Thanks again to the kind CS owner who offered his brand new track car to get my feedback that day.
thank you for that, very insightful. how does the CS compare to a GT3Cup? if YOU had to pick one and track it for years to come, which one and why?
12-28-2019, 04:47 PM
#45
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The sequential gearbox on the Cup is a very expensive item to maintain. I don’t care for auto boxes, but the PDK in the Clubsports (718 and GT2 RS CS) is far less expensive.
I’d only be interested if they still made a GT3 Cup with a Manual (last one was 996.2).
I’d only be interested if they still made a GT3 Cup with a Manual (last one was 996.2).