No Lift Shift
08-27-2019, 09:32 PM
#16
Racer
Same experience here. If I take over while auto-blip is pressed it shifts and revs matches like a normal transmission. I like the fact that you can seamlessly intervene if you want to. Like if I don't want to do a loud downshift I can slowly match revs and finesse the shift (say next to CHP or local PD)
Last edited by iphilips; 08-27-2019 at 09:47 PM.
08-27-2019, 10:01 PM
#17
Instructor
Yes. Very annoying interventions.
For example, if you try to rev match a downshift while the lever is still in the higher gear or just nearing neutral (not yet into the gate of the lower gear) the car rev limits as it thinks you're trying to no-lift upshift. It's extremely annoying how it chokes the revving off.
Even if you're in gear, you put the clutch in and try to rev, it holds revs steady and doesn't rev freely.
I made a thread about it with videos.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t3-manual.html
Very very annoying that it can't be disabled. I honestly have no interest in no-lift shifting. It's fast and works fine but develops very bad habits and is just unnecessary. Certainly when it hampers heel-toe downshifting fun.
For example, if you try to rev match a downshift while the lever is still in the higher gear or just nearing neutral (not yet into the gate of the lower gear) the car rev limits as it thinks you're trying to no-lift upshift. It's extremely annoying how it chokes the revving off.
Even if you're in gear, you put the clutch in and try to rev, it holds revs steady and doesn't rev freely.
I made a thread about it with videos.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t3-manual.html
Very very annoying that it can't be disabled. I honestly have no interest in no-lift shifting. It's fast and works fine but develops very bad habits and is just unnecessary. Certainly when it hampers heel-toe downshifting fun.
Rev matching and NLS is always on, regardless of the Sport button which merely enables auto-blip. For around town driving, auto rev matching and NLS can make for a very smooth and refined drive, but for spirited heel-toe its annoying; sometimes it interferes with your blipping, and when you shift perfectly you have no idea if it was you or the electronics.
In the latest issue of 000, Pete Stout talks with Andreas Preuninger about the electronic throttle in the Speedster, and there was some talk about emissions targets affecting the behavior. Even Andreas couldn't get the programming changed when it annoyed him!
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carbondan (08-28-2019)
08-27-2019, 10:19 PM
#18
Racer
Why are people blipping while still in the higher gear? Why not blip as you release the clutch?
The point of the blip is to keep revs matched and the only time that matters is when the clutch goes back out. So you want your blip to happen as close as possible in time to the clutch reengaging.
To confirm.. are people doing this?
Option A
1. Take foot of gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Blip
4. Shift to lower gear.
5. Clutch out
Or... This
Option B
1. Take foot off gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Shift to lower gear
4. Release clutch and blip
For B here is a good tutorial https://driver61.com/resources/how-to-heel-and-toe/
The point of the blip is to keep revs matched and the only time that matters is when the clutch goes back out. So you want your blip to happen as close as possible in time to the clutch reengaging.
To confirm.. are people doing this?
Option A
1. Take foot of gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Blip
4. Shift to lower gear.
5. Clutch out
Or... This
Option B
1. Take foot off gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Shift to lower gear
4. Release clutch and blip
For B here is a good tutorial https://driver61.com/resources/how-to-heel-and-toe/
08-27-2019, 10:26 PM
#19
Drifting
08-27-2019, 10:27 PM
#20
Drifting
Why are people blipping while still in the higher gear? Why not blip as you release the clutch?
The point of the blip is to keep revs matched and the only time that matters is when the clutch goes back out. So you want your blip to happen as close as possible in time to the clutch reengaging.
To confirm.. are people doing this?
Option A
1. Take foot of gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Blip
4. Shift to lower gear.
5. Clutch out
Or... This
Option B
1. Take foot off gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Shift to lower gear
4. Release clutch and blip
The point of the blip is to keep revs matched and the only time that matters is when the clutch goes back out. So you want your blip to happen as close as possible in time to the clutch reengaging.
To confirm.. are people doing this?
Option A
1. Take foot of gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Blip
4. Shift to lower gear.
5. Clutch out
Or... This
Option B
1. Take foot off gas.. press brake
2. Clutch in
3. Shift to lower gear
4. Release clutch and blip
It's a technique problem. Not a car problem.
08-27-2019, 10:48 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
It’s your technique, not the car. And yes I’ve tried it all, including the 50 mph, 3rd gear thing. If you come off the gas completely before you push the clutch in (old school I know), the car revs freely. I have no issues with heel toe and no issues with the no lift shift. It all works fine.
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erik_plus8 (08-28-2019)
08-27-2019, 11:14 PM
#22
Instructor
Deleted
08-27-2019, 11:18 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Great video. I no lift shift 100% of the time. I’m close to 5K miles and you can tell when you start to depress the clutch it almost holds the revs waiting for you to shift. It’s a game to see how quick I can shift but doing it with the clutch and pulling the shifter. Late in the video he mentions that every once in awhile on an upshift that is in the 7K Range, it makes a ridiculous backfire type sound. I know exactly what he’s referring to and it makes me laugh. I race my 996 Cup car and it obviously has non of these features so I’m perfectly OK with these features on the street. It’s so engaging. They did a great job on this manual.
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RockyTopTenn (08-28-2019)
08-27-2019, 11:22 PM
#24
Drifting
08-27-2019, 11:38 PM
#25
Instructor
08-27-2019, 11:52 PM
#26
Racer
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RockyTopTenn (08-28-2019)
08-28-2019, 12:28 AM
#27
Instructor
Try this next time you are out in your 6MT
Sport mode OFF
1) cruise along in 2nd say at 4000rpm with the throttle arrow showing light throttle
2) without lifting off the throttle, depress the clutch and change to 3rd, watching the revs drop to around 3000rpm. Do not lift off the clutch. Do not lift off the throttle
3) with the clutch still engaged, change from 3rd back to to 2nd and watch the revs return to 4000rpm, without adjusting the throttle
4) reengage 2nd smoothly.
The above works for me in many different scenarious - 3rd to 2nd and engage, 2nd to 3rd and engage, 3-2-3, 2-3-2 etc
It mucks up if I take a little too long or a little too quick or the throttle arrow disappears. But with a little practice at timing its very smooth and easy.
08-28-2019, 12:36 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Abso-freakin-lutely! It's when I have a momentary lapse and forget that the computer is doing the thinking and tap the gas that I mess up the perfection. I've been driving sticks almost daily since 1984. This is the first that rev matches for me...
08-28-2019, 12:43 AM
#29
Instructor
BUT I'd still like to turn off rev matching and do it 100% manually like I do in my 987 Boxster S.
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RockyTopTenn (08-28-2019)
08-28-2019, 12:55 AM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
LOL. Ok, I'm back after a quick test drive to check my facts:
Try this next time you are out in your 6MT
Sport mode OFF
1) cruise along in 2nd say at 4000rpm with the throttle arrow showing light throttle
2) without lifting off the throttle, depress the clutch and change to 3rd, watching the revs drop to around 3000rpm. Do not lift off the clutch. Do not lift off the throttle
3) with the clutch still engaged, change from 3rd back to to 2nd and watch the revs return to 4000rpm, without adjusting the throttle
4) reengage 2nd smoothly.
The above works for me in many different scenarious - 3rd to 2nd and engage, 2nd to 3rd and engage, 3-2-3, 2-3-2 etc
It mucks up if I take a little too long or a little too quick or the throttle arrow disappears. But with a little practice at timing its very smooth and easy.
Try this next time you are out in your 6MT
Sport mode OFF
1) cruise along in 2nd say at 4000rpm with the throttle arrow showing light throttle
2) without lifting off the throttle, depress the clutch and change to 3rd, watching the revs drop to around 3000rpm. Do not lift off the clutch. Do not lift off the throttle
3) with the clutch still engaged, change from 3rd back to to 2nd and watch the revs return to 4000rpm, without adjusting the throttle
4) reengage 2nd smoothly.
The above works for me in many different scenarious - 3rd to 2nd and engage, 2nd to 3rd and engage, 3-2-3, 2-3-2 etc
It mucks up if I take a little too long or a little too quick or the throttle arrow disappears. But with a little practice at timing its very smooth and easy.