997 GT2

even in my old school Ducati Monster S4 bike the CERATEC is a great benefit and also in my GC Overland 5,7 Hemi JEEP.

test it for yourself and YOU WON'T REGRET IT!

best regards Klaus

WMcCamey

I lost engine in 2019 GT3RS myself this week. I must say Porsche had roll back at my home within 45 minutes of being notified. Took it to shop and they called upon arrival to inform as such.. Called me back around 3:30 same and informed me metal in oil pan. Said new engine be at their shop on Wednesday and my car should be ready probably Monday of next week. Yes,, hate engine blew but how could anyone give any better service. Car had about 2700 miles and I hate it all happened but at this point I'm a Porsche Service Fan.. Will keep you posted as repair and how new engine preforms.

oliver991

Same engine experience first week of Jan with a 19 3RS but it seems like you resolution was much quicker!

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-response.html

WP0

I'm beginning to wonder about my CPO '16 991.1 GT3 RS: about 10 months ago, I got the "engine control fault. reduced power. consult a workshop" on my dash while driving at Daytona. The check engine light stayed on for 5 days, without going off at the time. I took it to the local dealership, and they said it was a problem with either the electrical or mechanical camshaft actuators, so they swapped the electrical actuators to another side to see if the fault followed.

The next time I took it out, the fault recurred. I took it to the local dealership, and they said that the faults were on both banks, so they replaced all mechanical and electrical camshaft actuators. I asked them to also replace the camshaft sensors, but they would not do that under CPO, so I paid out of pocket to replace the camshaft sensors.

I took the summer off, but recently went out to Sebring, and the same fault recurred last weekend: "engine control fault. reduced power. consult a workshop" I took it to the local dealership again, where it is waiting for their foreman to return from vacation before looking at it tomorrow. This time, however, the fault would only occur briefly, during RPM over 7-8k, and then the fault would disappear after 5-10 seconds, but it did this repeatedly, about every 30 seconds as long as I drove it.

Any recommendations as to what I need to ask the dealership to do this week: scope the camshafts and levers?

I've got 6 weeks left on the CPO. . .

Thanks.

shahrukh_bakar

Sounds like it’s time for a top end inspection

Charles Navarro

Have you done a used oil analysis?

It goes without saying anyone who owns one of these cars needs to be doing used oil analysis at every oil change.

WP0

No oil analysis. . . I've had the oil serviced by the same local dealership. . . I'll ask them to do this tomorrow, if possible. What do I look for in the oil analysis for problems? High copper levels?

Charles Navarro

We all know these engines have had issues. The purpose of doing used oil analysis would be to generate a baseline for your engine before you have an issue. If you suddenly see an increase in say iron levels, you will see that well before you actually have any symptoms. In a case like yours, the only thing you could hope for now would be excessively high wear levels in the oil which you might be able to push for engine replacement under the CPO warranty.

Many also go the route of an aftermarket warranty which might be warranted in an instance like yours if the CPO can't be extended. I would also reach out to PCNA in this instance. Might not get you anywhere, but with time running out on the CPO, what's to lose?

The last thing I would state is that having spoken to many at Porsche events it would seem that those not using M1 seem not to be having problems. There are other A40 oils out there if you are under warranty and even better options if you don't care about Porsche approval.

WP0

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I've read about the '15 GT3 engine problems, and am well aware of those. I mentioned that the same finger followers in the 991.1 GT3 are also used in the 991.1 GT3 RS to my dealership, but they were certain that this wasn't "that" problem, since that misfire code was cylinders 2,5 (or something like that), and mine fault was supposedly for something else".

I'll inquire at the dealership as to options to extend the CPO, or an aftermarket warranty, and if they aren't helpful, I'll inquire at PCNA.

Thanks,

itrsteve

I would 100% pay out of pocket to drop the engine and visually inspect the valvetrain. They're going to send the images of scored rockers back to the mothership and see what they do from there.

Maybe have an attorney on standby.

Also, there are no usual suspects when it comes to which cyls throw the error either.

WP0

Should I just have the dealership drop the engine and inspect the valve train? Or do I need an independent mechanic? (Personally, I would prefer all work done on the vehicle before the CPO expires to be completed at the dealership.)

As for a lawyer, I'll probably have to use CAP Motors arbitration, since that's the required route for CPO vehicles.

Thanks.

itrsteve

Personally, I'd have the dealership drop it so you're following similar protocol. Eventually they're going to have to get to this point anyway but better to start demanding it now that time isn't on your side.

While I wouldn't expect a dealer to have dug into this nuanced topic, PAG knows exactly what they're seeing when they get images of a scored valvetrain. They warranty the MA175's all day long, so what's a MA176?

Absolute worst case scenario, you paid out of pocket to have the valvetrain inspected and everything is fine and you can move forward with peace of mind.

sampelligrino

Cross posting this info here, hopefully we can find it to be truthful and help understand nuances if any between 991.1 GT3 3.8L MA175 and 991.1 GT3RS 4.0L MA176

"1). The .1RS MA176 engine benefits from a number of changes that make it far more reliable than the .1 GT3 MA175 in thsi respect - and as you have correctly identified valve train related failure in this engines is very uncommon. Not a concern IMO. Fundamentally the engine architecture still has the same archillies heel. However PAG made an important change prior to launch of the GT3RS. The MA176 4.0L unit was originally intended to redline at 9000 rpm (same as GT3 and subsequent 991.2 GT3RS). I still have screen shots on file from original launch video footage taken at a European track which shows the 991.2 GT3RS with a 9000 rpm tachometer! Porsche elected (wisely) to reduce the headline max rpm to 8800 rpm. Actually this was only for 1st gear. Anyone using a AIM or Racelogic CAN/OBD telemetrics system in their car at teh track chan show you that in 2/3/4/5/6 gear the PDK is limited even further in max rpm and this its shift points for PDK. The shift RPMs are reduced by approx 50 rpm per shift until 8650 rpm. These changes alone reduce significantly the issue of pump down with the hydraulic lash adjusters.

Furthermore the MA176 engine incorporated the additional oil squirters and galleries in the head that were also incorporated in GT3 G series replacement engines. The variable oil pump had a higher "work rate" capacity and the finder followers were updated to a revised part number and mid cycle MA176 engines incorporated the DLC cam Lobes. Software revisions for oil pump presure at RPM were incorporated as per replacement GT3 engines.

Its my opinion that a valvetrain failure in a MA176 engine even used on track is much much less of a likelihood. Im aware of a couple of examples only.

The 991R engine is unlikely ever to see any signifcant abuse. Most of these cars are used on teh road or are in collections. Porsche took further caution here and reduce the hard limiter further (to 8600 rpm). I dount well ever see an issue with these engines."

- Macca993 on Pistonheads (no affiliation)

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...t=1791741&i=20

WP0

Well, I just heard back from the dealership, and based on their evaluation, they say that a wire going to the camshaft actuator needs to be replaced. The fault was P0023 Bank 2 exhaust camshaft adjustment malfunction

I suppose that's a relief? Should I still request a scope of the top end of the engine? Can they do a scope without dropping the engine, or would it be best to drop the engine and do an open top end eval?

Thanks.

itrsteve

Could certainly be the case if that's the code it's triggering instead of the misfire one.

I can't tell you how to measure risk or spend money, but if your SA is familiar with replacements of the normal one then it may not hurt to explore what the labor charges would be to drop it out and visually inspect and remove any doubt before the CPO expires. IIRC, others have paid around $2200 but I'm sure there's tons of variance there. But maybe it's possible to scope as a preliminary measure? May not be a bad option to explore either. Would be curious to know what they respond with.

Worst case, you wasted $2200~ and know that after all that track time that everything is tip top and there's nothing to worry about going forward, which isn't a bad price tag to rest easy.

The bolded part is the point of concern, we know there was a change at some point mid-cycle update to switch to DLC cams but not sure when. Up until then the MA176 was no different than the factory 2016 MA175 (G0) and people have still killed those (although a little more difficult).

Just go back to post #49 on this thread, no different than what the .1 GT3 guys (including myself) had. Non-DLC cams and scoring all over.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post15797493
Also post #79 https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post16688573