Porsche Cracking Down on Flippers?
05-26-2017, 08:24 PM
#47
05-26-2017, 08:45 PM
#49
Drifting
Wow, What a brilliant idea. Upset the folks that buy multiple cars a year to make someone who buys a car every 13 years happy. Does that make sense to you? Not gonna happen folks. Money talks.
05-26-2017, 09:30 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
For last 9 years, I have purchased and owned and driven the following Porsche's:
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
Actually, they're already doing that with all but the actual numbered cars. Doesn't seem to be helping—so far, anyway.
05-26-2017, 09:31 PM
#51
For last 9 years, I have purchased and owned and driven the following Porsche's:
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
Modern:
2008 Porsche 997.1 GT3-RS (Viper Green)
2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 Cup
2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder (Arctic Silver)
2011 Porsche 997.2 GT3-RS (White)
2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 (White)
2016 Porsche 991.1 GT3-RS (White)
2017 Porsche 991.2 C4S (GT Silver) - CURRENT (DAILY)
Classic:
’67 911 (Polo Red)
’73 911T (Silver)
’73 911S (Irish Green) - CURRENT
’73 911 Carrera RS 2.7 (Tangerine #440) - CURRENT
’76 911 Carrera MFI ROW (Continental Orange)
’87 930 Turbo (White)
’91 964 3.3 Turbo (Red)
And I cannot track down a new GT3 allocation from any dealer; sure I could find one out of state; but how is that good customer service? I have never flipped a Porsche. I drive them. I track them. I love these cars. I represent their ideal customer and am loyal to them. It's hard to not get upset. And I am sure there are many who have bought many more than me in the same situation. If Porsche truly cared for enthusiast buyers, then they would ensure people like myself and others were able to get these cars without the fuss.
05-26-2017, 09:43 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Thank you. I plan to write PCNA and see what happens. I also think patience is key; i am willing to wait for a later car as well once the hype passes. My favorite modern GT car was the 997.2 RS by far; i loved the steering feel, motor/tranny, the smaller overall size, the mechanical LSD (driving out of turns with outer rear wheel) and the lack of rear steering (more predictable handling at limit). It was very confidence inspiring with right setup vs. 997.1 RS and i was able to toss it around and push it super hard and still be in control past the limit. the 991's are easier to drive fast, but found the '16 RS to bite sharply once passed it's limits. i plan to snag another 7.2 RS; hopefully a 4.0 if the market ever dips.
Last edited by Laguna_Dude; 05-27-2017 at 02:00 AM.
05-26-2017, 09:52 PM
#53
With all due respect, this is total BS. There are two easy ways to stop flipping.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
Both of these options can hurt bottom line for manufacturer. Option 1 would synthetically lower the price and option two would lower total revenue due to lower unit volumes.
If porsche wants a tight ship - distribute gt cars directly from manufacturer. Eliminate dealer control.
05-26-2017, 09:55 PM
#54
05-26-2017, 10:16 PM
#55
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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With all due respect, this is total BS. There are two easy ways to stop flipping.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
1. Build more cars. If demand exceeds supply, increase supply to match demand at the price point you've set as MSRP.
If #1 is not possible, then
2. Increase MSRP to a true market clearing price that will eliminate the profit opportunity of flipping.
Either one of those would get cars in the hands of drivers and eliminate flipping. Porsche could do either one of those. They choose not to do so. As such, many of these cars will sit undriven much for years, just like all the RS's out there with less than 1,000 miles on them. It is what it is, but Porsche claiming their hands are tied is pure bull****.
You don't get my point at all.
Building more cars and setting a higher MSRP IS adjusting the supply & demand and the market. Just like if Porsche starts building bad GT cars, like turbo engines and just a power kit of the GTS with nothing special, then the market will change as well.
Market forces is unstoppable when clearly supply & demand is one way, and market is one way, and you're trying to enforce the market to not go above MSRP.
Which is why I said you have to solve the true problem, and not just put a bandage on a bone fracture to remedy it.
Policing flipping, discouraging dealers, etc, is all just like putting out a forest fire with a water gun. You'll make some futile attempts, but you'll never be able to get rid of the disease. The true problem is setting the market right. As you suggested, setting msrp at market price and building more supply than demand. You can either drop the demand by building worse cars or setting a higher price, or increase supply by building more cars.
05-26-2017, 10:23 PM
#56
Race Director
Originally Posted by chaosoul
You don't get my point at all.
Building more cars and setting a higher MSRP IS adjusting the supply & demand and the market. Just like if Porsche starts building bad GT cars, like turbo engines and just a power kit of the GTS with nothing special, then the market will change as well.
Market forces is unstoppable when clearly supply & demand is one way, and market is one way, and you're trying to enforce the market to not go above MSRP.
Which is why I said you have to solve the true problem, and not just put a bandage on a bone fracture to remedy it.
Policing flipping, discouraging dealers, etc, is all just like putting out a forest fire with a water gun. You'll make some futile attempts, but you'll never be able to get rid of the disease. The true problem is setting the market right. As you suggested, setting msrp at market price and building more supply than demand. You can either drop the demand by building worse cars or setting a higher price, or increase supply by building more cars.
Building more cars and setting a higher MSRP IS adjusting the supply & demand and the market. Just like if Porsche starts building bad GT cars, like turbo engines and just a power kit of the GTS with nothing special, then the market will change as well.
Market forces is unstoppable when clearly supply & demand is one way, and market is one way, and you're trying to enforce the market to not go above MSRP.
Which is why I said you have to solve the true problem, and not just put a bandage on a bone fracture to remedy it.
Policing flipping, discouraging dealers, etc, is all just like putting out a forest fire with a water gun. You'll make some futile attempts, but you'll never be able to get rid of the disease. The true problem is setting the market right. As you suggested, setting msrp at market price and building more supply than demand. You can either drop the demand by building worse cars or setting a higher price, or increase supply by building more cars.
Why does Porsche limit these #'s and like to dangle carrots above dealers heads for these allocations??
Wondering your take. I know what mine is.
05-26-2017, 10:43 PM
#57
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It takes two to flip.
Might actually be easier to crack down on the flippee
Might actually be easier to crack down on the flippee
05-26-2017, 11:16 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by -eztrader-
If porsche wants a tight ship - distribute gt cars directly from manufacturer. Eliminate dealer control.
05-26-2017, 11:19 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
