Great AMERICAN 964s for sale
04-07-2022, 12:28 AM
#7321
Rennlist Member
I disagree with you on this one, the seller made out like a bandit, hope the buyer is happy with their purchase.
Car was presented as a low mileage one owner although a 2006 accident was mentioned briefly in the auction description.
Original owner deceased, being sold on behalf of the sellers step mother etc.
Repair invoice later showed that both quarter panels, rear deck lid and cross member were replaced.
Front bumper cover, hood, both fenders, both doors, mirrors were repaired and refinished, evidence of masking of the stickers on drivers side door jam.
Windshield was replaced along with quite a few other parts, tail lights, center reflector, deck lid hinges etc.
Second bidder with a history of throwing out bids on cars that they had no intention of buying got worried that they might win. Bidder then asked BAT to withdrawn their bid.
I would say at at $110K the seller did just fine.
Car was presented as a low mileage one owner although a 2006 accident was mentioned briefly in the auction description.
Original owner deceased, being sold on behalf of the sellers step mother etc.
Repair invoice later showed that both quarter panels, rear deck lid and cross member were replaced.
Front bumper cover, hood, both fenders, both doors, mirrors were repaired and refinished, evidence of masking of the stickers on drivers side door jam.
Windshield was replaced along with quite a few other parts, tail lights, center reflector, deck lid hinges etc.
Second bidder with a history of throwing out bids on cars that they had no intention of buying got worried that they might win. Bidder then asked BAT to withdrawn their bid.
I would say at at $110K the seller did just fine.
04-07-2022, 01:27 AM
#7322
Rennlist Member
The only other thought I have, can’t imagine spending over $100K on a car without taking a look at it in person.
04-07-2022, 09:31 AM
#7323
Rennlist Member
Go home BAT, you're drunk.
The following users liked this post:
dukmon (04-07-2022)
04-07-2022, 09:43 AM
#7324
Rennlist Member
964's are popping up so often on BaT, I cannot keep up.
04-07-2022, 12:34 PM
#7325
Rennlist Member
love this one as well. what impresses me is the condition of the studio check fabric. unless redone, the driver's seat and every other section looks phenomenal.
you certainly won't see another like this at your local C&C!
you certainly won't see another like this at your local C&C!
04-09-2022, 04:22 PM
#7326
I would have been a bidder on that blue targa if it weren’t for the accident issues.
Looking for a low mile example in blue or green..maybe silver.
Is BAT my best bet in locating one?
Looking for a low mile example in blue or green..maybe silver.
Is BAT my best bet in locating one?
04-09-2022, 10:21 PM
#7327
Rennlist Member
04-10-2022, 08:56 AM
#7328
Rennlist Member
Sources
BAT is a hit or miss proposition esp sight unseen Rennlist and Panorama are also a good source but the best is "word of mouth" from trusted folks and the ability to close a deal in a heartbeat.
04-10-2022, 06:01 PM
#7329
Race Car
Originally Posted by rsabeebe
love this one as well. what impresses me is the condition of the studio check fabric. unless redone, the driver's seat and every other section looks phenomenal.
you certainly won't see another like this at your local C&C!
you certainly won't see another like this at your local C&C!
So many nicely over priced recently bought cars end up local to us...and then you have all the way way way over priced, over hyped, over bought, under-understood, BAT cars that tragically end up here that come to me for a look, and they tend to be heavily polished turds.
No comment on this particular car, as i actually liked it, a lot. But that was, no surprise, because i liked the seats, and because of that, i barely looked at the rest...probably like most others that look at bat auctions.
Anyway...i feel for all new 964 buyers. They are paying way too much. And have zero idea how much money they will spend turning their new baby into a reasonably good car. Hope they are saavy with a wrench.
And for those recent bat buyers that are here...we feel for you. And we will help you though your newly bought mess...lol.
When is the world going to get back to the reality that the off the rack 964 was a slow, ill handling pig, that drips oil like my old aunt bessie, and wasn't worth owning unless we dove into it and sorted zillions of things porsche did wrong...
04-10-2022, 10:35 PM
#7330
Rennlist Member
Here is one at Grand Prix Motors Inc that seems nice if fully priced.https://www.grandprimotors.com/all-i...2&make=Porsche
04-10-2022, 10:42 PM
#7331
Rennlist Member
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/por...-1994-1622867/
I am partial to GPW/blk so this caught my eye. That said I feel like the white minimizes the wider fenders. I think I will just continue being very happy with what I have got.
I am partial to GPW/blk so this caught my eye. That said I feel like the white minimizes the wider fenders. I think I will just continue being very happy with what I have got.
04-11-2022, 12:29 PM
#7332
Rennlist Member
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-49/
Quite an auction there! In the first hour and before the seller even made a post the first two bids left it at $99,964! The seller was selling it for his step mom that her late husband had bought new. The description of the car in the listing includes "The seller states that bodywork was performed in 2006 to repair rear-end damage from an accident with another vehicle." When asked about it he said that it occurred before he knew his step mom but immediately reached out to the repair shop and obtained the repair invoices which were posted right away. The repair included a complete repaint, I imagine so the undamaged areas would be a perfect match over time which makes sense as the car remained with them until now. With those details and unfounded comments both bids were withdrawn. The bashing by several commenters continued and gave this auction a massive taint. Statements like "Not a chance that anyone could forget to mention an accident so involved that the airbag was deployed as a black airbag in blue wheel is a dead giveaway." though the seller later demonstrated with photos that the airbag was original (and not on the accident repair invoice). Many of the posts were FLAGGED AS NON-CONSTRUCTIVE and even in a blink of the eye flat out removed by BAT.
The comments in the BAT auctions are truly helpful. As I said in one of my responses in the auction comments: "Your comment that “I think he’s new to BAT and probably a bit surprised we Porsche people are so picky…because the car looks beautiful now.” is in this case understatement to the extreme. I agree that comments here help to bring issues to light and informs prospective bidders about matters that often even sellers are unaware of. That being said the extent of the accident is not known. What is known is that there was an accident in 2007 and what the repairs included. Early in the comments there is a reference to a $25k repair and somehow that becomes the number when it was actually $20,646.03. After the repairs the car was loved and cared for by the same folks that are for the first time offering it in this listing."
I would call this auction a complete $#!+ show and the seller was genuinely harmed by vitriol that went beyond constructive assessments. I would be very curious to see where it would have gone if the misinformation police had simply shed light on facts and left it at that. I am certain that I will be tarred and feathered for this post but it frankly seems like it needs to be said and if in doubt read through the posts in the listing (at least those that remain).
Quite an auction there! In the first hour and before the seller even made a post the first two bids left it at $99,964! The seller was selling it for his step mom that her late husband had bought new. The description of the car in the listing includes "The seller states that bodywork was performed in 2006 to repair rear-end damage from an accident with another vehicle." When asked about it he said that it occurred before he knew his step mom but immediately reached out to the repair shop and obtained the repair invoices which were posted right away. The repair included a complete repaint, I imagine so the undamaged areas would be a perfect match over time which makes sense as the car remained with them until now. With those details and unfounded comments both bids were withdrawn. The bashing by several commenters continued and gave this auction a massive taint. Statements like "Not a chance that anyone could forget to mention an accident so involved that the airbag was deployed as a black airbag in blue wheel is a dead giveaway." though the seller later demonstrated with photos that the airbag was original (and not on the accident repair invoice). Many of the posts were FLAGGED AS NON-CONSTRUCTIVE and even in a blink of the eye flat out removed by BAT.
The comments in the BAT auctions are truly helpful. As I said in one of my responses in the auction comments: "Your comment that “I think he’s new to BAT and probably a bit surprised we Porsche people are so picky…because the car looks beautiful now.” is in this case understatement to the extreme. I agree that comments here help to bring issues to light and informs prospective bidders about matters that often even sellers are unaware of. That being said the extent of the accident is not known. What is known is that there was an accident in 2007 and what the repairs included. Early in the comments there is a reference to a $25k repair and somehow that becomes the number when it was actually $20,646.03. After the repairs the car was loved and cared for by the same folks that are for the first time offering it in this listing."
I would call this auction a complete $#!+ show and the seller was genuinely harmed by vitriol that went beyond constructive assessments. I would be very curious to see where it would have gone if the misinformation police had simply shed light on facts and left it at that. I am certain that I will be tarred and feathered for this post but it frankly seems like it needs to be said and if in doubt read through the posts in the listing (at least those that remain).
So let's just say the seller was a pawn in this and his M-in-law was suffering from dementia and did not remember, which I highly doubt. At a min his wife would have knowledge of the extent of the damage if a family member was involved and the car shows as being in far worse condition than a 16k mile car would have been. The pictures provided for the restoration contest shows a car that doesn't remotely look like a 16k mile car. I purchased 15 year old abandoned cars that sat outside that didn't look so rough. So was the odo fix done some 80k miles later? This is an entire series of unanswered questions by itself. At a min this should have been noted as TMU. Why wasn't the accident repair list noted in the initial listing? Why is it only partial? There must be bills for the engine work which was extensive and normally needed after a hard impact like this. So if there are no engine receipts one might assume there are others missing? In the slim case the airbags didn't deploy why the mismatched colored airbag? A factory airbag would not show as this one does. It was dyed at best and not done properly. There is no way of knowing if the pictures of the interior of the car were before or after the crash. Just far too many questions and the workmanship IMO is far from quality work. Alignment of some panels are not correct and the way the taped off labels is atrocious. Worst yet the shop sourced the incorrect parts and an impact requiring the cross member to be replaced means without question extensive engine damage and much more I can spend hours spelling out. It just reeks of dishonesty and the responses support it IMO.
There was the most minimal transparency and what little was provided was only done after the obvious was pointed out. Would he ever have disclosed the paperwork if it wasn't called out the wrong part was used? I honestly feel his only surprise was that the facts can be pointed out through pictures and was caught with his pants down, backpedaled and had friends help which only made things worse.
Here is an engine that had similar back end damage to the car in question. As you can see this usually necessitates a full rebuild as the impact damages far more than most realize. This engine came out of a 964 C4 that took a back end hit similar to what happened here. With rear end damage especially ones needing frame rail repair always need extensive repairs and bent rails nearly always deploy the airbags. If you look closely the passenger airbag panel is not correctly installed as well. ???? The engine case casting usually sustains damage to the engine brace supports due to impacting the support just below the cross member. Usually cars this extensively damaged are totalled even in today's market.
This is not how a factory installed passenger airbag panel will look if it wasn't deployed
^^^ Accidents like this send shock waves throughout the entire tunb and usually require other repairs. Note that even the power steering pump and housing were damaged in the impact.
Irrespective of all the opinions and info provided there are so many unanswered questions which just lead to more unanswered questions. The pictures of the pre restoration are pretty sad and nothing lines up with the miles or carfax. One must assume that the odo had been broken for quite some time. There are 10 years of no mileage recorded from 1990 till 2000 and clearly there was some game playing going on. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in this case there is just no doubt in my mind this seller knew what he was doing and was hoping winning the award would help sell the car and shadow over all the other issues he did not plan to address. Clearly Barnum was right and he found his sucker.
This is why I would never buy a car without seeing it in person or an extensive PPI. As values rise the dishonest sellers come out of the woodwork and this one IMO made out like a bandit. What is really sad is someone actually paid over market for such a damaged car just because of the color without a proper PPI. I have no doubt if I had the car for an hour I could write volumes on what is wrong and a small page about what is right.
Last edited by cobalt; 04-11-2022 at 12:36 PM.
04-11-2022, 01:11 PM
#7333
Rennlist Member
Seems like a lot of effort into the repair, I wonder why they didn't put the badge in the right place. 
04-11-2022, 01:43 PM
#7334
Anthony, You missed the 1992 Rear structure on that 1990 Blue Targa. Looks like a good repair. But Buying any targa that's been hit hard is foolish at over $100,000 IMO. For one the tops pop out if the car's structure has been compromised.
04-11-2022, 05:55 PM
#7335
Rennlist Member
So let's just say the seller was a pawn in this and his M-in-law was suffering from dementia and did not remember, which I highly doubt. At a min his wife would have knowledge of the extent of the damage if a family member was involved and the car shows as being in far worse condition than a 16k mile car would have been. The pictures provided for the restoration contest shows a car that doesn't remotely look like a 16k mile car. I purchased 15 year old abandoned cars that sat outside that didn't look so rough. So was the odo fix done some 80k miles later? This is an entire series of unanswered questions by itself. At a min this should have been noted as TMU. Why wasn't the accident repair list noted in the initial listing? Why is it only partial? There must be bills for the engine work which was extensive and normally needed after a hard impact like this. So if there are no engine receipts one might assume there are others missing? In the slim case the airbags didn't deploy why the mismatched colored airbag? A factory airbag would not show as this one does. It was dyed at best and not done properly. There is no way of knowing if the pictures of the interior of the car were before or after the crash. Just far too many questions and the workmanship IMO is far from quality work. Alignment of some panels are not correct and the way the taped off labels is atrocious. Worst yet the shop sourced the incorrect parts and an impact requiring the cross member to be replaced means without question extensive engine damage and much more I can spend hours spelling out. It just reeks of dishonesty and the responses support it IMO.
Irrespective of all the opinions and info provided there are so many unanswered questions which just lead to more unanswered questions. The pictures of the pre restoration are pretty sad and nothing lines up with the miles or carfax. One must assume that the odo had been broken for quite some time. There are 10 years of no mileage recorded from 1990 till 2000 and clearly there was some game playing going on. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in this case there is just no doubt in my mind this seller knew what he was doing and was hoping winning the award would help sell the car and shadow over all the other issues he did not plan to address. Clearly Barnum was right and he found his sucker.
This is why I would never buy a car without seeing it in person or an extensive PPI. As values rise the dishonest sellers come out of the woodwork and this one IMO made out like a bandit. What is really sad is someone actually paid over market for such a damaged car just because of the color without a proper PPI. I have no doubt if I had the car for an hour I could write volumes on what is wrong and a small page about what is right.
Irrespective of all the opinions and info provided there are so many unanswered questions which just lead to more unanswered questions. The pictures of the pre restoration are pretty sad and nothing lines up with the miles or carfax. One must assume that the odo had been broken for quite some time. There are 10 years of no mileage recorded from 1990 till 2000 and clearly there was some game playing going on. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in this case there is just no doubt in my mind this seller knew what he was doing and was hoping winning the award would help sell the car and shadow over all the other issues he did not plan to address. Clearly Barnum was right and he found his sucker.
This is why I would never buy a car without seeing it in person or an extensive PPI. As values rise the dishonest sellers come out of the woodwork and this one IMO made out like a bandit. What is really sad is someone actually paid over market for such a damaged car just because of the color without a proper PPI. I have no doubt if I had the car for an hour I could write volumes on what is wrong and a small page about what is right.