They're back! Rennlist North Wales Run - Sunday March 21st.
03-25-2010 | 09:46 PM
#331
Racer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: the land of taxes (uk)
Opinions split over legacy as Speed-cop Brunstrom retires
Jul 11 2009 by Darren Devine, Western Mail
Labelled the Mad Mullah of the Traffic Taliban by some, Britain’s most outspoken policeman Richard Brunstrom retired yesterday
facts are facts,,,
I looked into him, and he left under a dark cloud after upsetting most of his own men.
Who's the new geezer in charge then?
The triangle is saved ? maybe they can spend the camera budget on filling in all the pot holes now and cleaning the mud off the roads.
poor old NSKI must have fell every bump.
Gaz,
03-26-2010 | 12:45 AM
#332
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Liverpool-UK
Opinions split over legacy as Speed-cop Brunstrom retires
Jul 11 2009 by Darren Devine, Western Mail
Labelled the Mad Mullah of the Traffic Taliban by some, Britain’s most outspoken policeman Richard Brunstrom retired yesterday
facts are facts,,,
I looked into him, and he left under a dark cloud after upsetting most of his own men.
Who's the new geezer in charge then?
The triangle is saved ? maybe they can spend the camera budget on filling in all the pot holes now and cleaning the mud off the roads.
poor old NSKI must have fell every bump.
Gaz,
I must add, a fair few good points have been made and fair too. The whole reason for this day out was as Steve mentioned a catchup with fellow members, a bit of banter and of course a munch of these famous chocolate brownies!
This Porsche outing was the first for me, and I must admit all members were well behaved, a nice day for a cruise around the scenic Welsh country, but most importantly a stop for some nice photography.
Arhhhhhh it wat a nice Sunday out in the fresh air
03-26-2010 | 05:07 AM
#333
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,095
Likes: 2
From: Cheshire, UK
John, no apology needed. My post wasn't to decry (in any way) the meet on Sunday. H*ll, if you don't arrange them, no one else seems to be willing to !!
I'm just concerned that if these gatherings become regular and with such large numbers in attendance they may cause problems in the future.
As an interesting aside, a poster on PH decided to sample the delights of the Triangle for the first time a couple of years ago. On his arrival there, he drove around it four times ! !
Now lets just say for the sake of arguement he drove an Impreza with a "baseball cap on backwards type exhaust system" To the locals the first time he passed through their village he might have been watched with amusement, the second time with a narrowing of eyes, the third time with a sense of exasperation and the fourth and final time with a quick call to the local police to say that some yob in a noisy car keeps racing through the village.
If our Subaru driving friend then scoots off home and the local police decide to "investigate" only to witness a gaggle of Porsches being driven at speed around the locality, one can only guess what their actions would be. My guess is the facts would be noted and the case for reducing the speeding "menace" that afflicts the Triangle would be raised at the next meeting with Adolf Brunstrom . . .
Last weekends run was "out of season" for the local police. Come Easter weekend and the next seven or so months you can rest assured their presence will be scaled up, and if we happen to get caught in the net whilst they're targeting lunatic bikers, they'll not care one iota.
I'm all too aware that the Triangle is a superb piece of road and I guess I'm a being selfish in my quest to keep it "off the radar" to the general public !
Maybe it's an over reaction on my part, but the day those average speed cameras appear we'll have lost a great driving road. That saddens me (especially if through a little vigilence and common sense) it could have been postponed.
One point I would take issue with though. Rob M spoke of applying his brakes several times to "warn" those behind him that the unsighted corner approaching was severe (no kidding !!) that to me indicates that "progress was being made".
The local constabulary and or the magistrate who oversee the case of the person (or people) in numerous Porsches speeding around The Triangle will NOT differentiate between us guys doing 80/90/100 +mph out in the wilds and the person doing 35mph outside a school at 3.30pm.
Whilst you and I both know that the former is a more responsible use of speed, the powers that be will not recognise the oh so subtle difference. You're a pragmatic bloke, don't kid yourself that making progress around these roads in a responsible manner is ANY form of defence against charges brought by the speed ***** !
I think the suggestion of using other roads is a good one. I suggested some a couple of years back but you were concerned that they were maybe too far away for some of the attendees to travel to.
If the numbers witnessed on Sunday become the norm I'd suggest those who wish to take advantage of your organisational talents be prepared to make the effort to travel a bit further in order to preserve use of the Triangle for as long as possible
Now where's my diary . . .
I'm just concerned that if these gatherings become regular and with such large numbers in attendance they may cause problems in the future.
As an interesting aside, a poster on PH decided to sample the delights of the Triangle for the first time a couple of years ago. On his arrival there, he drove around it four times ! !
Now lets just say for the sake of arguement he drove an Impreza with a "baseball cap on backwards type exhaust system" To the locals the first time he passed through their village he might have been watched with amusement, the second time with a narrowing of eyes, the third time with a sense of exasperation and the fourth and final time with a quick call to the local police to say that some yob in a noisy car keeps racing through the village.
If our Subaru driving friend then scoots off home and the local police decide to "investigate" only to witness a gaggle of Porsches being driven at speed around the locality, one can only guess what their actions would be. My guess is the facts would be noted and the case for reducing the speeding "menace" that afflicts the Triangle would be raised at the next meeting with Adolf Brunstrom . . .
Last weekends run was "out of season" for the local police. Come Easter weekend and the next seven or so months you can rest assured their presence will be scaled up, and if we happen to get caught in the net whilst they're targeting lunatic bikers, they'll not care one iota.
I'm all too aware that the Triangle is a superb piece of road and I guess I'm a being selfish in my quest to keep it "off the radar" to the general public !
Maybe it's an over reaction on my part, but the day those average speed cameras appear we'll have lost a great driving road. That saddens me (especially if through a little vigilence and common sense) it could have been postponed.
One point I would take issue with though. Rob M spoke of applying his brakes several times to "warn" those behind him that the unsighted corner approaching was severe (no kidding !!) that to me indicates that "progress was being made".
The local constabulary and or the magistrate who oversee the case of the person (or people) in numerous Porsches speeding around The Triangle will NOT differentiate between us guys doing 80/90/100 +mph out in the wilds and the person doing 35mph outside a school at 3.30pm.
Whilst you and I both know that the former is a more responsible use of speed, the powers that be will not recognise the oh so subtle difference. You're a pragmatic bloke, don't kid yourself that making progress around these roads in a responsible manner is ANY form of defence against charges brought by the speed ***** !
I think the suggestion of using other roads is a good one. I suggested some a couple of years back but you were concerned that they were maybe too far away for some of the attendees to travel to.
If the numbers witnessed on Sunday become the norm I'd suggest those who wish to take advantage of your organisational talents be prepared to make the effort to travel a bit further in order to preserve use of the Triangle for as long as possible
Now where's my diary . . .
We acted responsibly on Sunday. The only reason we would have turned heads would have been the wonderful sight of a score and ten Porsches cruising along. Whether we do more of these runs or not will have little effect on the triangle's future. Our nanny state is set on reducing and regulating speed everywhere. Soon the only place we will be able to enjoy driving is on the track and no doubt the nannies will ban that too if they have their way. I say, enjoy it responsibly while it lasts.
03-26-2010 | 05:20 AM
#334
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Steve, totally agree with your comments. Nothing that we do as a responsible group of petrolheads will either hasten or slow the increasing criminalisation of the motorist nor stop the 'protect us from ourselves' lobbies.
Sunday was whatever you wanted it to be, with enthusiasts enjoying the cars, scenery, roads and company.
Don't understand the 'secret squirrel' approach of not mentioning the Scottish play (triangle
) - we'll be telling people not to mention how fantastic 964s are next, just in case someone makes them illegal!
Sunday was whatever you wanted it to be, with enthusiasts enjoying the cars, scenery, roads and company.
Don't understand the 'secret squirrel' approach of not mentioning the Scottish play (triangle
) - we'll be telling people not to mention how fantastic 964s are next, just in case someone makes them illegal!
03-26-2010 | 05:36 AM
#335
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,095
Likes: 2
From: Cheshire, UK
03-26-2010 | 08:17 AM
#336
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 501
From: UK
You obviously put a lot of thought in to writing this and the post that pre-ceeded it. In a nutshell both of them are saying; 'please don't do these runs any more because they could spoil the road for me'?
We acted responsibly on Sunday. The only reason we would have turned heads would have been the wonderful sight of a score and ten Porsches cruising along. Whether we do more of these runs or not will have little effect on the triangle's future. Our nanny state is set on reducing and regulating speed everywhere. Soon the only place we will be able to enjoy driving is on the track and no doubt the nannies will ban that too if they have their way. I say, enjoy it responsibly while it lasts.
We acted responsibly on Sunday. The only reason we would have turned heads would have been the wonderful sight of a score and ten Porsches cruising along. Whether we do more of these runs or not will have little effect on the triangle's future. Our nanny state is set on reducing and regulating speed everywhere. Soon the only place we will be able to enjoy driving is on the track and no doubt the nannies will ban that too if they have their way. I say, enjoy it responsibly while it lasts.
Neither am I saying don't do these runs again. I'm saying apply some moderation to doing them. I do think over 30 cars is excessive and whilst I appreciate you all enjoyed yourselves and clearly want to do it again soon, perhaps you'd consider doing them 2-3 times a year and also doing runs out to other parts of the UK rather than taking the "easy" option and concentrating on this one area ? John has done some fantastic looking runs up to Scotland with Rob. Whether they'd want 31 cars trailing them up there in the future is a moot point . . .
I think the amount of attendees on Sunday was a bit of a surprise. Previously when I've been on these runs numerous owners have SAID they're going to attend and then the majority tended to be no shows. Thus the meets tended to be anywhere between 5 - 10 cars.
And yes, as I admitted in my last post, maybe I am being a tad selfish (just as your viewpoint could be considered equally selfish)
I enjoy using the roads in the area and I'd like to continue doing so for a while yet. In a nutshell, the more publicity the Triangle receives the sooner the police presence will increase. Meets such as those on Sunday will only serve to further encourage all and sundry into the area. Throw in a couple of (serious) accidents and the game will be over.
We can discuss this ad infinitum, you're firmly entrenched in the "I want to enjoy it now, I don't care about the future as it's going to happen anyway" camp.
My thoughts are that "a little common sense applied now may delay that process"
Neither of us are going to change our viewpoints anytime soon
03-26-2010 | 08:48 AM
#337
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,499
Likes: 6
From: London, UK
You read too much into this; we were in convoy and actually well under national speed limit; it's just that there is one corner that when you're as low down as me in the GT3 you can't see the chevrons & there's not even a 'normal' red triangle warning sign of a left hand bend. I was simply making people aware and braking very early as I didn't want anyone surprised and parking in my boot...
In addition, I was being over-cautious as I didn't know the people behind, and also know the dangers when in convoy of not watching the road, simply following the car in front. In which case I wanted to give them opportunity to see the bend.
I actually think this weekend's run was a nice pace & nicely social. Police presence would not have been an issue.
One of the things that the Triangle has in its favour which will ensure that it's always going to be fairly quiet...is that it's bloody hundreds of miles from anywhere! It's a 500 mile trip for me, and I could have some nice runs in France for that...
So it's never really going to get too swamped.
03-26-2010 | 08:55 AM
#338
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Poor old Henry must wish he'd never opened his mouth.
Anyway, on with the next one and we'll decide quite what's to be done when we see how many fancy coming along.
Anyway, on with the next one and we'll decide quite what's to be done when we see how many fancy coming along.
03-26-2010 | 09:06 AM
#339
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,095
Likes: 2
From: Cheshire, UK
Atgani, I read your posts thoroughly before making any replies, including the end of the first post where you apologized in advance for putting a downer on proceedings. Which has obviously now happened. And I agree that you haven't decried anyone's driving standards but at the same time, you introduced the 'baseball cap on backwards' analogy which was my reason for re-stating our good behaviour.
I don't regard the viewpoints I have expressed as being selfish because I'm putting the case forward for the 30 or so drivers who enjoyed the day and would like to do it again. I'm just one of the few that are willing to speak up against the points you've raised.
Personally, I doubt there will ever be such a big turnout again. However, I fear that John has now been put in an awkward position as to whether he organizes another one because of the worry that it will be too popular. As someone who also organizes meets and outings (mostly group bookings on trackdays) I know what effort goes in to making them a success. The majority of attendees at such events are very grateful for the efforts of the organizer. However, when someone puts a downer on the proceedings it makes you think to yourself..."I don't think I'll bother any more".
I don't regard the viewpoints I have expressed as being selfish because I'm putting the case forward for the 30 or so drivers who enjoyed the day and would like to do it again. I'm just one of the few that are willing to speak up against the points you've raised.
Personally, I doubt there will ever be such a big turnout again. However, I fear that John has now been put in an awkward position as to whether he organizes another one because of the worry that it will be too popular. As someone who also organizes meets and outings (mostly group bookings on trackdays) I know what effort goes in to making them a success. The majority of attendees at such events are very grateful for the efforts of the organizer. However, when someone puts a downer on the proceedings it makes you think to yourself..."I don't think I'll bother any more".
03-26-2010 | 10:26 AM
#340
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 501
From: UK
Hi Rob, I wasn't there, so I appreciate I'm in no position to judge, But based on previous outings with yourself and John I know we're all capable "of making progress"
Hi John, amen to that, I wish I hadn't said anything on the matter now.
Hi Boxey, I have no wish to put a downer on things and I'm struggling to comprehend quite why you might think I have done so. What is done is done.
As I said previously, wer'e both firmly entrenched in our views, I've merely asked you to consider your actions in the future and be pragmatic. You've CLEARLY taken exception to that.
That's your prerogative. If you wish to continue this ad infinitum please do so by PM.
As you were
Hi John, amen to that, I wish I hadn't said anything on the matter now.
Hi Boxey, I have no wish to put a downer on things and I'm struggling to comprehend quite why you might think I have done so. What is done is done.
As I said previously, wer'e both firmly entrenched in our views, I've merely asked you to consider your actions in the future and be pragmatic. You've CLEARLY taken exception to that.
That's your prerogative. If you wish to continue this ad infinitum please do so by PM.
As you were
03-26-2010 | 10:28 AM
#341
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Don't worry about me, mate, I've already set about organising the next. :-)
Henry's a good sort, and his points are fair enough. It can seem a bit like he punctured a balloon of pleasure (I should be a writer...), but that's not his style - just airing his fears, which is fair enough. Let's put this one to bed now and think ahead.
Henry's a good sort, and his points are fair enough. It can seem a bit like he punctured a balloon of pleasure (I should be a writer...), but that's not his style - just airing his fears, which is fair enough. Let's put this one to bed now and think ahead.
03-26-2010 | 10:52 AM
#342
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 501
From: UK
Don't worry about me, mate, I've already set about organising the next. :-)
Henry's a good sort, and his points are fair enough. It can seem a bit like he punctured a balloon of pleasure (I should be a writer...), but that's not his style - just airing his fears, which is fair enough. Let's put this one to bed now and think ahead.
Henry's a good sort, and his points are fair enough. It can seem a bit like he punctured a balloon of pleasure (I should be a writer...), but that's not his style - just airing his fears, which is fair enough. Let's put this one to bed now and think ahead.
If numbers are "reasonable" I'll look forward to the next meet and hopefully meet some new faces and bury the hatchet (not sure where)
with Herr Boxey 
03-26-2010 | 11:12 AM
#343
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 501
From: UK
Opinions split over legacy as Speed-cop Brunstrom retires
Jul 11 2009 by Darren Devine, Western Mail
Labelled the Mad Mullah of the Traffic Taliban by some, Britain’s most outspoken policeman Richard Brunstrom retired yesterday
facts are facts,,,
I looked into him, and he left under a dark cloud after upsetting most of his own men.
Who's the new geezer in charge then?
The triangle is saved ? maybe they can spend the camera budget on filling in all the pot holes now and cleaning the mud off the roads.
poor old NSKI must have fell every bump.
Gaz,
03-26-2010 | 02:16 PM
#344
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Many thanks again for organizing and thanks for showing me the nice roads. My better half remarked that we spent more time parking and taking pictures than actually driving and even though she felt a little left out in the car discussions, she truly enjoyed her time with the "crazies and their old cars".
Some straggler pictures (Video to follow):
Some straggler pictures (Video to follow):
03-26-2010 | 05:47 PM
#345
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,095
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From: Cheshire, UK
Hi Boxey, I have no wish to put a downer on things and I'm struggling to comprehend quite why you might think I have done so. What is done is done.
As I said previously, wer'e both firmly entrenched in our views, I've merely asked you to consider your actions in the future and be pragmatic. You've CLEARLY taken exception to that.
In a nutshell, you expressed concern over the size of this run and I countered that it ended up being of no concern. The old phrase of 'you had to be there' comes to mind. Like you, I thought that such a large gathering was a recipe for disaster. I nearly didn't go. However, as it turned out, the quality of the people who attended the day ensured there were no problems at all. It appears that you have not taken this on board and urged us not to come in such large numbers next time. I will heed your wish.