sml

Indycam,
I always value your feedback.
What are your oil recommendations?

Indycam

Where are you ?
What motor do you have ?
How many miles do you drive this car each year ?
How do you drive ?

Red line , Brad Penn , Swepco ...
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...brad-penn.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...nn-review.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-penn-oil.html
"I am using it on the advice of my guru; Steve Weiner of Rennsport Systems."

"I prefer a synthetic in everything, particularly in turbos and engines that get really hot. I talked to one of Redline's engineers, who happens to be a Porsche guy himself. He wrote, "I just today received the latest chemical composition for the motor oil from our chemist. The phosphorus is 1100ppm and the zinc is 1230ppm. Still sufficient levels for good flat tappet cam shaft protection." That was good enough for me. Several guys here who track cars use Redline. They're harder on oil than I ever will be."

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...australia.html
"Reading the threads on oil is a bit scary - my 964 had a rebuilt engine at 150,000 kms and the repair work records state "replace camshafts due to lobe wear"- so maybe it was an oil problem?"

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...o-you-use.html
"I recently had my engine built (top and bottom) by Buckley Racing and and after the initial startup oil was drained, he recommended Swepco 306 oil due to its anti wear additives (Zinc, phosphorus, etc). So I'm using Swepco 20w50. A lot of folks use Brad Penn for the same reasons (anti wear additives). It's fairly common knowledge (see many past posts) that the mass produced oils such as Mobil 1, Valvoline, etc, have reduced their zinc levels."

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...l-1-front.html
"SM is bad. If it says SM don't buy it. We want oil that explicitly cannot meet SM specs."

"Many mechanics have reported noticeable engine wear on engines that have been recently disassembled that seems excessesive and unexplainable. Many now believe the culprit is the oil."

"We abandoned Mobil engine oils well over a year ago after multiple camshaft/rocker failures and now use, recommend and sell both Brad-Penn 20w-50 and Swepco 306 in two viscosities.
Besides offering the needed protection, we picked up some power on our engine dyno from the use of these oils, as well."

"Mobil have been playing "footsie" with oil specs lately as part of their damage control to marketing. They have complied with the EPA's demand to reduce ZDDP while trying not to lose market share. To that end, they have not been very forthcoming about providing specs on their oils for the folks who need such protection even going so far to say that the current SM-rated 15w-50 has sufficient levels of Zn & P for these engines. I beg to differ,............."

Indycam

If you should happen to have a top fuel nitromethane set up in your porsche ...
http://www.bradpennracing.com/Produc.../Nitro-70.aspx

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1280&bih=617

Is it just me or is he running a bit rich ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tg6RDUFQJ4&NR=1
"* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine is not powerful enough to drive the dragster’s supercharger."

Indycam

Or maybe if your porsche pulls like a train ?
http://www.amref.com/CMSFiles/File/b..._RR_Oil_PB.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxlbneQeX6o

perlfather

I am confused. Mobil recommends 0W-40 (from about 15 different Mobil1 synthetics) and Porsche recommends Mobil1 0W-40 for our cars, yet there are a lot of people who think that this is rubbish. Do these "experts" really know more than the engineers at Mobil and Porsche?

PorscheZen

Answer - I had done some research and found the same threads. I was using Redline on advice from my mechanic for track use (he too now rejects M1 after years of use). Brad penn was less expensive yet still recommended. I have noticed continued burning off of the oil as well as some suspicion about my O2 sensor going bad b/c my mileage has dropped a bit.

As per above:
"I recently had my engine built (top and bottom) by Buckley Racing and and after the initial startup oil was drained, he recommended Swepco 306 oil due to its anti wear additives (Zinc, phosphorus, etc). So I'm using Swepco 20w50. A lot of folks use Brad Penn for the same reasons (anti wear additives). It's fairly common knowledge (see many past posts) that the mass produced oils such as Mobil 1, Valvoline, etc, have reduced their zinc levels."

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...l-1-front.html
"SM is bad. If it says SM don't buy it. We want oil that explicitly cannot meet SM specs."

"Many mechanics have reported noticeable engine wear on engines that have been recently disassembled that seems excessesive and unexplainable. Many now believe the culprit is the oil."

"We abandoned Mobil engine oils well over a year ago after multiple camshaft/rocker failures and now use, recommend and sell both Brad-Penn 20w-50 and Swepco 306 in two viscosities.
Besides offering the needed protection, we picked up some power on our engine dyno from the use of these oils, as well."

"Mobil have been playing "footsie" with oil specs lately as part of their damage control to marketing. They have complied with the EPA's demand to reduce ZDDP while trying not to lose market share. To that end, they have not been very forthcoming about providing specs on their oils for the folks who need such protection even going so far to say that the current SM-rated 15w-50 has sufficient levels of Zn & P for these engines. I beg to differ,............."

Indycam

Mobil1 0W-40
"providing the extreme cold start protection of an 0W grade and the high temperature protection of an SAE 40 grade."

"Mobil 1 0W-40 has a FLASH POINT of 446F, a POUR POINT OF -65F"

If I ever need a pour point of -65F ,
I will look into 0W-40 .

Unkle

Simple answer, no they probably don't.

And Porsche don't suggest Mobil 0w40 so their cars start with a pour point of -65 either.

Its probably due to the fact they have been partners since 1996 with the Super cup series starting with the FIA championship in 1993. Porsche recommend Mobil probably because they are technical partners.

The only rational advice perhaps is to listen to Porsche or leading brand oil companies and not "experts" as you put it...

LouZ

Your prerogative, opinions from these forum "experts" are not forced on anyone.

LouZ

BTW - if you own a vintage 356, would you want to use a lead substitute with the Unleaded gas (petrol) so you don't prematurely ruin the valves?

The car will run on modern day gas OK, but you have to consider that it was DESIGNED to run on leaded!

That's all the "experts" are stating! As for me - I will continue to assure that the ZDDP levels in my oil meet the DESIGN conditions of my engine.

perlfather

Good point. I am curious not trying to be contrarian.
Do you or does anybody else know what the oil Design conditions were for the 1989 vintage engines?

As for the Zinc (ZDDP) and Phosphorus levels it is good to know that Mobil1 0W40 has 1100 and 1000ppm (respectively) - about the same as the ones suggested by the local "experts".

Unkle

I never said forum experts, I didn't assume anyone on here was an expert from the oil industry or from Porsche. I simply implied "rational" advice, i.e. regardless of opinion, its weighted in favour of Porsche and Leading brand oil companies instead of others, or as Perlfather put it, "experts".

I don't favour one brand, i use all sorts in cars, I just can't believe that the oil industry and Porsche are wrong and a few engine rebuilders are right. but thats just me...

Unkle

I'm not sure if that is a correct analogy, as I assume Porsche would advise you to use an additive for lead substitution in a 356, where as they would not suggest you use Brad Penn 20w50 for example. But that is just a guess, and i could be wrong...

Jacke2c

When I rebuilt my 1979 911 SC, I uprated the engine to euro specs. I broke the engine as per Porsche recommendations using a regular SD oil. After 500 miles, I changed the oil, but instead of going with a synthetic, I went with my choice of oil (of the company that I worked for) and used it for another 1,000 miles. My engine would always run a little warmer than it did before overhaul, but it was built to specs and I wasn't worried. Yes, I did update the oil bypass and piston as per Porsche recommendation. After a hard run one hot day in South Louisiana, The engine would run just at the bottom of the red temperature region. I changed the oil the next day using Mobil 1 synthetic and made the same run. The car ran a full 15 degree's cooler. I always swore by synthetic ever since. Nevertheless, about two years ago, I bought a new Exmark commercial mower. I mow about 5 acres weekly at my home in the country. When I asked about oil, the dealer confirmed that Mobil 1 (my previous positive bias) was okay for the engine, BUT DO NOT USE IT IN THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM OR YOU WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY. I asked the dealer; does this mower use engine oil in the hydraulics? and he said yes. They used to use MOBIL 1 in the hydraulics, but about 5 years ago they (Mobil) changed the formulation by taking the "anti-wear" agents out of the oil. Since the hydraulic pump is essentially a gear on gear type pump, it is prone to wear and the new formulation was allowing excess wear in the pump. Exmark has special oil blended now that contains the "anti-wear" additives. It is for this reason, I am contemplating the next brand I will trust in my engine. I worked in the oil industry for 18 years and my father-in-law blended oil for his entire career. Yes, what may have been adequate a decade ago maybe totally inappropriate now. It comforts me that redline is synthetic and has ZDDP. I am looking for a good local source now. I worked my way through college (Ph.D.) during the summers building 900 HP K series Cummins (dual intercoolers, etc.), and yes, oil does make a difference, a very big difference. The voice of experience says, do not scrimp on your oil. My 1979 SC engine rebuild is now 14 years old and the new owner called the other day asking about the history. I know that for the 7 years I drove it it received its oil change every 5,000 miles as did the next owner. The new owner still says the engine runs strong. I know that an "N" of one is not statistically valid, but I have never had a problem with any engine that i have rebuilt, including those that were rebuilt every weekend for the drag strip back in the 1970's.

Indycam

http://www.bradpennracing.com/CMSFil...nce%20Oils.pdf
"Prior to January 8, 2008, Penn Grade 1
High Performance Oils were blended with zinc
levels below 1500 ppm. This was in part dictated by the API service classification SJ
which limited the phosphorus level to 1000 PPM max for catalyst compatibility. It was
only after a decision was made to depart from the API performance classification that it
was possible to increase the phosphorus level to 1340 to 1400 range of the current
product."

"The Brad Penn
Penn Grade 1
Break-In oil is designed specifically with a lower level of
ZDDP and other select additive components as a Break-In oil. Since break in is a
wearing process high levels of an anti-wear additive may be counterproductive. The
type of ZDDP used in this oil is also more suitable for break in applications. This product
is highly recommended by a number of engine builders for use when breaking in newly
assembled engines to lubricate and assure proper sealing of components."