Fabspeed 964 C2/C4/RS RSR Header Muffler Kit
03-17-2009, 04:00 PM
#76
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I wouldn't mind a few pictures from the underside. Can you give us an idea of how you run the wiring for the O2 sensor on the drivers side (left side). Any pictures would be appreciated. 
03-17-2009, 05:40 PM
#77
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Wachuko, you use the stock crush rings 
I just replaced all 6 on mine because a few were blown out from age If you do decide to replace them, use ZIMS they are CHEAP!
Do you guys still need a pic of the plug on the passenger side CO2 space??? I have the car lifted now for the final drop, and can take some if you need.
Alex, are the outlet pipes on the muffler also redesigned a diff size, or is it just the straights?
I just replaced all 6 on mine because a few were blown out from age If you do decide to replace them, use ZIMS they are CHEAP!Do you guys still need a pic of the plug on the passenger side CO2 space??? I have the car lifted now for the final drop, and can take some if you need.
Alex, are the outlet pipes on the muffler also redesigned a diff size, or is it just the straights?
Thanks and I only have 4 confirmed buyers. I am still waiting for 2 more.
Alex@fabspeed
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Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
03-19-2009, 11:12 AM
#80
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I have there emails but I do not know who is who on rennlist with the usernames. If everyone who is interested, Please email at Alex@fabspeed.com or PM me with your username and contact information before the end of the week so I can tell you who's in and who's not.
Thanks,
Alex@fabspeed
Thanks,
Alex@fabspeed
03-19-2009, 08:29 PM
#82
OK, last question. I considered doing this upgrade for fun; it will sound better and look better. It will be easier to work on the car with all that junk removed. The car will be lighter. I was not really expecting too much increase in Engine Performance. But does anybody know for sure about how much more HP or Torque this will provide? Will it hurt engine performance? I am comparing to my current setup which is stock with the exception of a CAT Bypass.
03-19-2009, 09:30 PM
#83
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Doug751. I cant' answer any of your questions about power increase or decrease, and from what I understand, there has been no dyno testing done before and after install, but you will loose around lbs.45 off the back of the car, and like Geoffery said, it will sound fantastic, and that is really what I am after, I want that sound of the 3.0l RSR, the way a Porsche should sound. That said, my expectations of power increase would be similar to that of a cat bypass and cup pipe. 
03-19-2009, 11:13 PM
#84
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Real interested....
Curious, are you guys planning on swapping out the middle section of your bumper (with one that already has two exhaust outlets) to accomodate the dual exhaust, making a cut out or just pointing the second outlet down? Also, are your plans to hold onto the stock setup for the yearly inspections?
tom
Curious, are you guys planning on swapping out the middle section of your bumper (with one that already has two exhaust outlets) to accomodate the dual exhaust, making a cut out or just pointing the second outlet down? Also, are your plans to hold onto the stock setup for the yearly inspections?
tom
03-20-2009, 12:00 AM
#85
From a pure "engine is a pump" perspective, any exhaust upgrade over the stock system will increase horsepower, especially on a 15-20 year old car. The less air resistance that exhaust gas meets on its way out, the more efficient the engine is able to pump it out, and the more horsepower the engine should generate. Besides emission controls, manufacturers were trying to meet the general public's lower noise output expectations, all of which leads to quite a non-efficient exhaust system.
The Fabspeed system (have a look at the relevant videos here: http://www.fabspeed.com/964C2_C4_RS.html ) should have a larger diameter pipe and more efficiently built piping (I haven't had the benefit of applying a tape measure to the Fabspeed system, but check out the stock tubing...). That said, I would be surprised if your upgrade over stock wouldn't generate at least a 5% increase in horsepower over stock, and that's being conservative.
It looks like my project car is going to get done before this GB wraps up, so I have the opportunity to benchmark a stock exhaust (without heat) against the Fabspeed, but the problem is I have a 3.8l conversion with some funky stuff going on in the engine. Regardless, at least we'll be able to see the increase (or lack thereof) in horsepower.
Originally Posted by tgage
Real interested....
Curious, are you guys planning on swapping out the middle section of your bumper (with one that already has two exhaust outlets) to accomodate the dual exhaust, making a cut out or just pointing the second outlet down? Also, are your plans to hold onto the stock setup for the yearly inspections?
Curious, are you guys planning on swapping out the middle section of your bumper (with one that already has two exhaust outlets) to accomodate the dual exhaust, making a cut out or just pointing the second outlet down? Also, are your plans to hold onto the stock setup for the yearly inspections?
The stock exhaust on my car disappeared many years ago, so no to the second part of your question...
03-20-2009, 08:40 AM
#86
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Alex is going to have to chime in here to give us some hard scientific figures, but Fabspeed has been making exhausts for some time now, so my assumption that they've done the homework behind it shouldn't be too far-fetched.
From a pure "engine is a pump" perspective, any exhaust upgrade over the stock system will increase horsepower, especially on a 15-20 year old car. The less air resistance that exhaust gas meets on its way out, the more efficient the engine is able to pump it out, and the more horsepower the engine should generate. Besides emission controls, manufacturers were trying to meet the general public's lower noise output expectations, all of which leads to quite a non-efficient exhaust system.
The Fabspeed system (have a look at the relevant videos here: http://www.fabspeed.com/964C2_C4_RS.html ) should have a larger diameter pipe and more efficiently built piping (I haven't had the benefit of applying a tape measure to the Fabspeed system, but check out the stock tubing...). That said, I would be surprised if your upgrade over stock wouldn't generate at least a 5% increase in horsepower over stock, and that's being conservative.
It looks like my project car is going to get done before this GB wraps up, so I have the opportunity to benchmark a stock exhaust (without heat) against the Fabspeed, but the problem is I have a 3.8l conversion with some funky stuff going on in the engine. Regardless, at least we'll be able to see the increase (or lack thereof) in horsepower.
I was going to keep a single outlet on my car because the original plan was to keep the electro-wing, but I have an RSA tail being put on so I'm going dual. I'd say go sleeper with the hidden left side tip!
The stock exhaust on my car disappeared many years ago, so no to the second part of your question...
From a pure "engine is a pump" perspective, any exhaust upgrade over the stock system will increase horsepower, especially on a 15-20 year old car. The less air resistance that exhaust gas meets on its way out, the more efficient the engine is able to pump it out, and the more horsepower the engine should generate. Besides emission controls, manufacturers were trying to meet the general public's lower noise output expectations, all of which leads to quite a non-efficient exhaust system.
The Fabspeed system (have a look at the relevant videos here: http://www.fabspeed.com/964C2_C4_RS.html ) should have a larger diameter pipe and more efficiently built piping (I haven't had the benefit of applying a tape measure to the Fabspeed system, but check out the stock tubing...). That said, I would be surprised if your upgrade over stock wouldn't generate at least a 5% increase in horsepower over stock, and that's being conservative.
It looks like my project car is going to get done before this GB wraps up, so I have the opportunity to benchmark a stock exhaust (without heat) against the Fabspeed, but the problem is I have a 3.8l conversion with some funky stuff going on in the engine. Regardless, at least we'll be able to see the increase (or lack thereof) in horsepower.
I was going to keep a single outlet on my car because the original plan was to keep the electro-wing, but I have an RSA tail being put on so I'm going dual. I'd say go sleeper with the hidden left side tip!
The stock exhaust on my car disappeared many years ago, so no to the second part of your question...
From what I have read... any exhaust upgrade in a normally aspirated car will not improve hp... there is a certain amount of backpressure needed for optimal numbers...
03-20-2009, 09:30 AM
#87
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Nobody knows more about fluid dynamics than Porsche. They consult with most car manufacturers in the world on the subject. In the design of the 3.6, super-computers modelled the fluid flow. Don't think "back pressure". Instead, think organ pipes when you think about intake and exhaust runners. The length and diameter can be tuned to resonate at certain frequencies. The resonance flap in the intake system is an example of a device that changes the intake resonance to improve air flow. Inertial scavenging - taking advangage of fluid dynamics to get more air to flow through the engine over a certain RPM range is one way to tune an exhaust. I am not sure the after-market systems are tuned to avoid upsetting the fluid dynamics in the rest of the engine.
Tread carefully if you pursue aftermarket "upgrades". It is difficult and expensive to upgrade power in the 3.6, and it is very easy to lose power if you upset the tuning in other parts of the engine.
03-20-2009, 10:10 AM
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I have to chime in. The raw physical and emotional aspect of an aftermarket exhaust system is satisfying to your senses. The sound, it's breathtaking and head turning! Remember, manfacturers and governments decide engineering criteria to make products acceptable for marketing conditions. Then, the weight saving aspect, ripping the weight off the back end is the ultimate reason for the upgrade. Shedding that amount of weight puts your car in an entirely different class. Ultimately, it could be the winning reason. It's known there is an increase of about 10%, but who cares when you just ripped 40 lbs off the back end! Alex, what would the group price be for heat, no mufflers and a single tip?
03-20-2009, 04:34 PM
#89
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I have the following 5 buyers confirmed (Talat, Roadsleeper, CRG53, Wachuko and Carlos Macuix) I would like to get the GB list finished today. Please email me and let me know the who the 6th buyer is so we can get the kits rolling.
Everybody on here is correct in some ways, it is more complicated but also very simple at the same time. When it comes to a less restrictive and free flowing exhaust the engine will make more power because an engine is an air pump, so the easier the travel of air in and out of the cylinder the more power it will produce. The more fuel and air entering the cylinders, the bigger the combustion, but the science of it works the same when exiting the car. Fuel needs air to burn so a less restrictive intake will let in more air and make more power, but all this burned air and fuel needs to get out so you upgrade to a more free flowing exhaust. The faster and less resistence of air exiting the cylinder will generate more power which is why exhausts make horsepower but to little resistance will actually suck the exhaust right out of the cylinder and create a loss in power. The point of all this is more gas in and more exhaust out the better the engine will run.
We have not had the chance to do a Dyno run on a 964 with our header muffler kit so that is why we are offering an additional $100 off to anyone who wants to do the install here and run their car to see the power gains.
I also think the weight loss is one of the biggest advantages of the system but we believe that it will make an approximate 20+ HP and 15+ Ft Lbs of Torque to the wheels with the kit but we will have to see what the Dyno says.
Alex is going to have to chime in here to give us some hard scientific figures, but Fabspeed has been making exhausts for some time now, so my assumption that they've done the homework behind it shouldn't be too far-fetched.
From a pure "engine is a pump" perspective, any exhaust upgrade over the stock system will increase horsepower, especially on a 15-20 year old car. The less air resistance that exhaust gas meets on its way out, the more efficient the engine is able to pump it out, and the more horsepower the engine should generate. Besides emission controls, manufacturers were trying to meet the general public's lower noise output expectations, all of which leads to quite a non-efficient exhaust system.
The Fabspeed system (have a look at the relevant videos here: http://www.fabspeed.com/964C2_C4_RS.html ) should have a larger diameter pipe and more efficiently built piping (I haven't had the benefit of applying a tape measure to the Fabspeed system, but check out the stock tubing...). That said, I would be surprised if your upgrade over stock wouldn't generate at least a 5% increase in horsepower over stock, and that's being conservative.
It looks like my project car is going to get done before this GB wraps up, so I have the opportunity to benchmark a stock exhaust (without heat) against the Fabspeed, but the problem is I have a 3.8l conversion with some funky stuff going on in the engine. Regardless, at least we'll be able to see the increase (or lack thereof) in horsepower.
I was going to keep a single outlet on my car because the original plan was to keep the electro-wing, but I have an RSA tail being put on so I'm going dual. I'd say go sleeper with the hidden left side tip!
The stock exhaust on my car disappeared many years ago, so no to the second part of your question...
From a pure "engine is a pump" perspective, any exhaust upgrade over the stock system will increase horsepower, especially on a 15-20 year old car. The less air resistance that exhaust gas meets on its way out, the more efficient the engine is able to pump it out, and the more horsepower the engine should generate. Besides emission controls, manufacturers were trying to meet the general public's lower noise output expectations, all of which leads to quite a non-efficient exhaust system.
The Fabspeed system (have a look at the relevant videos here: http://www.fabspeed.com/964C2_C4_RS.html ) should have a larger diameter pipe and more efficiently built piping (I haven't had the benefit of applying a tape measure to the Fabspeed system, but check out the stock tubing...). That said, I would be surprised if your upgrade over stock wouldn't generate at least a 5% increase in horsepower over stock, and that's being conservative.
It looks like my project car is going to get done before this GB wraps up, so I have the opportunity to benchmark a stock exhaust (without heat) against the Fabspeed, but the problem is I have a 3.8l conversion with some funky stuff going on in the engine. Regardless, at least we'll be able to see the increase (or lack thereof) in horsepower.
I was going to keep a single outlet on my car because the original plan was to keep the electro-wing, but I have an RSA tail being put on so I'm going dual. I'd say go sleeper with the hidden left side tip!
The stock exhaust on my car disappeared many years ago, so no to the second part of your question...
We have not had the chance to do a Dyno run on a 964 with our header muffler kit so that is why we are offering an additional $100 off to anyone who wants to do the install here and run their car to see the power gains.
I also think the weight loss is one of the biggest advantages of the system but we believe that it will make an approximate 20+ HP and 15+ Ft Lbs of Torque to the wheels with the kit but we will have to see what the Dyno says.
03-20-2009, 04:36 PM
#90
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I have to chime in. The raw physical and emotional aspect of an aftermarket exhaust system is satisfying to your senses. The sound, it's breathtaking and head turning! Remember, manfacturers and governments decide engineering criteria to make products acceptable for marketing conditions. Then, the weight saving aspect, ripping the weight off the back end is the ultimate reason for the upgrade. Shedding that amount of weight puts your car in an entirely different class. Ultimately, it could be the winning reason. It's known there is an increase of about 10%, but who cares when you just ripped 40 lbs off the back end! Alex, what would the group price be for heat, no mufflers and a single tip?