forklift

I was running a cat and primary by-pass w/ my MAF. Without the MAF I am looking for some power to make up for it and considering a secondary by-pass as well.....and ear plugs.

NineMeister

I dyno'd a european 964 3.6 Cup car yesterday and achieved exactly the result I expected. It made 302bhp corrected with a completely standard injection system (including restrictive air flow meter) but obviously with an optimised chip. This compared favourably to a dyno test of the same car in Germany before the owner bought it that recorded 298bhp. The car was fitted with just the rear silencer, the cat had no centre and the final silencer had been removed for a G-pipe.

As Geoff has said, 99% of the gains available with a 964 is in the ecu mapping.

The Cup & RS cars with "blueprinted" engines they make around 5-10bhp more than a stock 964 but after saying that I have seen standard late model 964s with a cat bypass make 300bhp after a live remap.

rodders

Colin and Red rooster - are you supporting the ProMAX chip - I know I am being very direct and Andrew will be saying - those b----y conservative 964 drivers - but i do find the subject fascinating and i do believe that the ' devil is in the detail '
Its not the cost, which is low in Pcar terms - but its important to know what exactly to expect and look for so as not to make assumptions - with the attendant disappointment.
In road not racing conditions what would i hope to experience with a ProMAX chip
***** on the line time !!

MarkD

From what I have gathered (via this post and the many prior posts on this topic) your best bet for HP gain is a "live remap". Conversely, an off-the-shelf chip is a gamble. You may gain or may not.

Do the smart folks here still agree on that point? Or am I over-simplifying this?

Thanks for the great info!

Red rooster

Mark,
No criticism implied or intended but I have absolutely no knowledge of the Promax products so cannot give an opinion.

The general starting point for a live remap is to accertain which set of maps the car is using so you are modifying what the motor is using.
Auto/manual/cat/non cat / US/Japan etc all use different combinations of maps.

It is possible to modify them all to cover all bases ! Maybe that is what Promax have done ?

I have certainly come across "chips" that dont do anything ! Inspection shows that they are for the wrong motor configuration.

I strongly endorse the "bum dyno" . Humans are twice as sensitive to power loss as opposed to gain . So take your car for a drive up a road that you know. If you can easily tell it is better , it is !!!!!!

Hope that helps.

Geoff

rodders

92964cab has a good point - do the pundits have any clear view on the live remap v the off the shelf product - does ProMAX have a view?
I meant to call to-day but the pear syndrome cut in - so the debate continues

Chris M.

Someone please explain what exactly a "live remap" is.

c

tafkai

live re-map on a r-road , as per 9m , is the only way to go .
anything else and you just MIGHT get lucky .

its like asking a grocer for SOME food . and them selling you what they normally eat for there evening meal .................
might just be a snack to me .............
or it might be way to much and i only eat half .

how can anybody tell what my engine needs without even seeing the car / condition of engine etc. ??
all you are going to get is there best guess on what you want , normally based on an average of results they have had .

tafkai

chris ,
a live re-map is when your car is placed on a rolling road , and then re-chipped to get the best results from your unique engine / mods .
other than an "off the shelk" item

tafkai

just thought of another anology .......................

just like a woman buying a wedding dress mail order , without even telling her measurements !!!!!

promax_motorsport

Hi All,

Bosch supply a common DME EPROM for the majority of Porsche cars using the Motronic ECU (i.e common to each model). There are some variations, but most regional changes are achieved with either a combination of the FQS (Fuel Quality Switch) and or Region Code settings on the ECU (selecting a map combination on the DME EPROM).

It is not necessary to put a car on the dyno to achieve a very noticeable power gain. It may be necessary to extract the maximum power reading on that dyno, but that will not necessarilly translate to useable performance on the road. It is quite feasible to get an additional 20bhp by fine tuning the last few fuel and ignition values on the wide open throttle map - but you won't feel this driving on the road. Only by carefully re-working all the fuel and ignition maps (idle trim, partial and wide open throttle) can a useful drivability and performance enhancement be obtained. This then can be suitable for the majority of cars - off the shelf!

Before condemning off the shelf chips, consider what they achieve first. We have sent a demo version to a US 964 owner to try - let them say what the chip achieves in reality. They should hopefully have it installed next week.

All our performance chips are sold with a 30 day money back guarantee (so its no gamble). We have developed chips for most Porsche models to 1995 (later cars require direct programming via the OBD2 port) including all 944, 911 3.2, 964, 928 and 968. We have only to date sold the chips to 968 owners in the USA (please check with 968 owners on Rennlist for feedback - it's possibly the most common upgrade currently for the 968). The 968 chip yielded a typical 13-15bhp more when tested by Nine magazine (in CA). However, its the improvement in torque spread and drivability that really found favour with buyers. Some have dyno tested to +22bhp (on the 968) when tested by owners independently.

The reality with the 911 3.2 and 964, is its much easier to extract more power than the 4 cylider cars (other than 944 Turbo). We get the best results from both these models compared to all other normally aspirated pre 1995 Porsche cars using Motronic.

So, either try one for yourself, or wait for the feedback from our US based tester. I think you will be positively surprised.

Have a great day!

Regards,
Andrew
www.promaxmotorsport.com

Marc Shaw

I ordered up a ProMax MAF/chip combo today.

Following the advice of others here (who know more than I do) I also removed my primary muffler, re-installed my secondary muffler, and ordered a primary muffler bypass.

We'll see what the dyno and butt-dyno tells us.

Marc
p.s. Re-installing the secondary muffler bracket is a bugger - I'd suggest you DON'T remove it.

H964

how does promax kit compare with authority kit?

dougn

i have been measuring my car on the dyno rather regularly lately. it's a dynojet 248...and the latest peak numbers are 231 ft-lbs torque @5500 and 244 RWHP@ 6100...i can scan the plots.

anyway, i would be glad to install this set-up and measure and post results. if it works out i'll buy it....and at least we'll have a good data point

Laurence Gibbs

Loren
I have seen your posts several times in relation to this subject and you seem to hold a very deep belief that re mapping does'nt work or produce gain, am i reading your posts correctly? If this is the case why are there so many cases that show noticeable gains via simple remaps along with minor changes such as air filter and cup bypass. we recently had a dyno day in the uk for 964RS models the spread of dyno figures ranged from stock to just over 300hp. The specs varied only in details such as minor exhaust and filter and maf kits.The average figures were in the 275-280 hp bracket. Porsches own cup car of 1993 was producing simiar figures with similar mods. If the chip has no direct element in this can you please tell me what it is that is helping these cars to reach 300hp.